Keeping it civil instead of returning to our dark ways

[sgtclub]

Originally posted by Did you just call me Coltrane?
I was actually trying to be funny there. By telling you what's good for you.

And my rants, FWIW, are filled with hyperbole.

What you don't realize is that I'm probably closer to you politically than the person you voted for yesterday. You didn't vote for a Republican.

Fair enough - it went right by me, so you're probably right, I do need sleep. Have been working for 3 weeks straight.

And I am aware exactly who (or what) I voted for yesterday.

[cheval de frise]

Originally posted by ltl/fb
Well, if you include direct subsidies but not indirect subsidies, the math changes. I'm just saying, you got that info from a regional group that has an agenda, and "lies, damn lies, statistics."

Agreed. I'd like to see some CBO numbers, but I can't find them on-line and I don't know if they exist. My Google-Fu is unworthy of even a lowly white belt.

Sgtclub, I'm not familiar with you either. I do appreciate your defense of a legitimate attempt at dialogue. FWIW, the last time I posted on the PB was probably 2-3 years ago over on infirm. You'd think I would have learned my lesson.

Slave, agreed re majority, we vs. they, and change. It's too bad the structural impediments to a third party are so high. I have higher hopes for pulling the Democrats to the center on economic issues than pulling the Republicans to the center on social issues. There are some people in the middle who aren't committed to either party. My own voting record in local and national elections hasn't tracked my party registration over the years.

CDF (thick-skinned, but my posting reflexes are slow and rusty)

[ltl/fb]

Originally posted by Tyrone Slothrop
The fact that there is no actual substance to your critique makes it more ironic but less filling. Burger is talking out of his ass when he says it's all just a correlation with incidence of personal income, but at least he's got something plausible there to grapple with.

You are full of crap. People who live in areas that import most tangible goods from other areas benefit from efficient transportation between where they are and where the stuff is coming from. Urban centers are a prime example of this. Some farm-type subsidies make food cheaper -- the subsidies go to the farmers, but the consumers of the food (who are for the most part in different geographic areas from the producers) benefit as well.

Christ, you are a lawyer -- you should know that few things are actually as simple as they appear at a cursory glance.

Again, whatever. Secede your heart out. Have fun coordinating your imports!

[Not Me]

Originally posted by dtb
That's a real rapist wit you have there.

Actually, Ty invented that so if you have complains, PM Ty. And for the record, I don't think rapists are witty.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally posted by Mmmm, Burger (C.J.)
Only my ass can respond to the inane point that the rich states should have their votes count more.

Your ass -- which I'm sure is both pleasant and nicely proportioned, though I've never seen it -- must be responding to someone else, because I don't believe I said that. My simple point was that we blue states tend to subsidize you red states.

[Fugee]

Originally posted by Did you just call me Coltrane?
Like Sebby said, Two years down the road the lower-middle class wingnuts are going to wake up, rub their eyes and realize that, economically (micro), they voted for the wrong guy. But the halo around Bush's head obscured that at the polls.

I think it is a mistake to assume they don't know the score. For many, it is a conscious trade-off: the rich can get richer if they get Roe overturned (the same sex marriage issue is new enough that I don't have a handle on whether it is important enough to be a one-issue determinant).

[Gattigap]

Originally posted by sgtclub
This is one of the prime reasons the DEMs are now in the minority.

Hey --

Back off, motherfucking jackass.

Self-immolation after a soul-crushing electoral defeat? That's OUR gig. Not yours. Ours.

You can watch the pretty flames, you can chuckle about it amongst yourselves (but quietly, and somewhere else -- maybe the Detroit Board or something), but do not -- do NOT -- add the swift kicks to the ribs. There's probably a 48 hour ban on that shit.

You want amusement, go find that hooker from yesterday with the funny yellow hat.

Gatti(still working through step 3, obviously)gap

[Shape Shifter]

Originally posted by sgtclub
Fair enough - it went right by me, so you're probably right, I do need sleep. Have been working for 3 weeks straight.

And I am aware exactly who (or what) I voted for yesterday.

A CAMMFRAP.

[LessinSF]

Originally posted by SlaveNoMore
Wasn't the GOP the party of the rich and Big Oil about a week ago?

Now they're the uneducated, rural poor.

Funny dat.

Actually, the GOP has come to resemble nothing so much as an old-style Southern Democrat. Socially conservative and fiscally liberal - the worst combination of features out there. Unfortunately, the Democrats hae not changed to become fiscally conservative (i.e. Libertarian). This leaves us with a battle solely over social issues, and the Republicans are going to win that battle.

[Mmmm, Burger (C.J.)]

Originally posted by cheval de frise
Agreed. I'd like to see some CBO numbers, but I can't find them on-line and I don't know if they exist.

Chances are pretty good that if CBO was allowed to publish anything, which it likely wasn't, they show a) that small states sometimes win and b) that big states sometimes win.

If there's one group to trust less than a lobbyist NGO it's the CBO.

[ltl/fb]

Originally posted by cheval de frise
Agreed. I'd like to see some CBO numbers, but I can't find them on-line and I don't know if they exist. My Google-Fu is unworthy of even a lowly white belt.

Congress cut a lot of funding for production of useful economic statistics, particularly uniform collection, compilation and publication of state-level information, I think during the whole "Contract On America" [intentional typo!] period. So they may not exist anymore.

[Diane_Keaton]

Originally posted by sebastian_dangerfield
Most of my friends are similar and also voted for Bush. Because they were selfish. They wanted the quick cash. I decided a little while back that I couldn't do that. It wasn't worth it. In a moment of insanity, I found myself suddenly idealistic.

It was not insane of you to vote for Kerry - why, some of my best FRIENDS are Kerry supporters. (: That said, I think someone can be idealistic even though they are Republican. I think I am idealistic.

We're nothing if we let angry scared crazy religious people control our destiny, and no matter how you skew the stats, those people are the difference. Without them, Bush would've lost by 9 pm last night.

If the majority of the people in this country are scared crazy religious people, then what's so unfair about a result that (as you say) reflects the majority of a country's people? I disagree that the majority are uneducated Jesus freaks speaking in tongues. They may not be educated to the degree that YOU AND I would prefer a voter to be before the voter casts his/her ballot. Do we really expect the masses to accomplish an insightful comparative analysis of each candidate's health care initiatives, taking into account the text and fate of prior ones? No. Most people are too busy and, yes, ill equipped, to analyze the way we do on here. Most will reason like my gas company friend who told me yesterday quite simply, "I am voting for Kerry because he is a Democrat and the Democratic party is `For the Working Man'". Yes, it's embarrasingly simple, but that's the way things are (and besides, he has really nice pectorial muscles).

I don't have religion; if you fuck this place up for me, I've got nothing else.

I'm agnostic too, brother.

I'm not the Taxi Driver.

I know but any opportunity to croon over picture of a young Deniro....(Yes, I admit it!! I have a fetish for skinny, burn-out looking men, ala a pre-fatty Jim Morrison and the like!)

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally posted by ltl/fb
You are full of crap. People who live in areas that import most tangible goods from other areas benefit from efficient transportation between where they are and where the stuff is coming from. Urban centers are a prime example of this. Some farm-type subsidies make food cheaper -- the subsidies go to the farmers, but the consumers of the food (who are for the most part in different geographic areas from the producers) benefit as well.

Christ, you are a lawyer -- you should know that few things are actually as simple as they appear at a cursory glance.

Again, whatever. Secede your heart out. Have fun coordinating your imports!

Ah, Burger distracted me, and now you have reminded me of my real points -- that nothing benefits anyone indirectly, and that everything is simple. Thank you.

Look, if you want to suggest that those statistics are misleading, and that blue states don't really subsidize red states, be my guest. You'll just have to bring something to the table besides witty references to Mark Twain.

[sgtclub]

Originally posted by Gattigap
Hey --

Back off, motherfucking jackass.

Self-immolation after a soul-crushing electoral defeat? That's OUR gig. Not yours. Ours.

You can watch the pretty flames, you can chuckle about it amongst yourselves (but quietly, and somewhere else -- maybe the Detroit Board or something), but do not -- do NOT -- add the swift kicks to the ribs. There's probably a 48 hour ban on that shit.

You want amusement, go find that hooker from yesterday with the funny yellow hat.

Gatti(still working through step 3, obviously)gap

My bad.

And I'm not gloating, mainly because we, and I mean WE, have a lot of work to do in this country. I just hate those that look down on those that are poor, not educated, etc.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally posted by Not Me
Actually, Ty invented that so if you have complains, PM Ty. And for the record, I don't think rapists are witty.

Are you Dumb or Dumber? I can't remember which.