Fashion Board 1-08-04 through 02-03-04

[notcasesensitive]

hard to believe that Philly choked again. Peter King's column today mentions that pre-game yesterday an Eagles fan said that Philly would win b/c they aren't Buffalo. Um, of course not - Buffalo made it to the Super Bowl... Wonder how much lower advertising rates will be for NE-Carolina than NE-Philly.

[greatwhitenorthchick]

Originally posted by Hank Chinaski
Smart & Baggar.

Didn't read the article, but the firm's name is actually Smart & Biggar, not Bagger.

[ThrashersFan]

I rented "The Order"(starring Heath Ledger) over the weekend. Very good. Much better than Freddy versus Jason, which I rented and watched only because my husband who normally will not watch "my" movies* said he would watch it with me.

Anyway, "The Order" was good. I recommend it. Even if you don't normally like movies with a religious theme. Or ones with Heath Ledger in them. There was enough creepy satanic kind of stuff to balance everything and make it a nice "thriller."



*ones with knives and blood and guts and creepy people who are always trying to kill you.

[Greedy,Greedy,Greedy]

Originally posted by ThrashersFan
Almost every state has a law stating that only licensed physicians can use terms like "Dr.," "M.D." "Doctor" etc. It has often pissed me off when people who are not physicians use it -- I work in the healthcare industry and I need to find out if they really are or not and have, on more than one occasion, had to chastise a non-licensed individual for using "Dr." on em's business cards, etc.

I thought that Doctor standing alone isn't generally prohibited in these statutes, but only "doctor of medicine", "doctor of podiatry" etc.

The practice is boorish, but I think it's only actually illegal in a handful of states.

Dr. Greedy, Jd

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally posted by greatwhitenorthchick
Didn't read the article, but the firm's name is actually Smart & Biggar, not Bagger.

thank you. for whomever it was who thought I did typos on purpose, this should answer your question. I ruined why the firm name is fun; it could not have been intentional.

I actually interviewed at Smart, but couldn't afford Toronto.

[Bad_Rich_Chic]

Originally posted by ThrashersFan
Almost every state has a law stating that only licensed physicians can use terms like "Dr.," "M.D." "Doctor" etc. It has often pissed me off when people who are not physicians use it -- I work in the healthcare industry and I need to find out if they really are or not and have, on more than one occasion, had to chastise a non-licensed individual for using "Dr." on em's business cards, etc.

I thought most of those regs were limited to the actual practice of medicine (health advertising-related, or related to actually practicing medicine (which could muck you up if you are a physical therapist with a PhD in divinity but not an MD, I guess). Probably depends on local regs, but I'd imagine a hospital administrator with a doctorate in hospital administration might well have the right (legal and customary) to use "Dr." for their business.

Random statute examples:

NY: "any person who uses the title "doctor" in making representations for the purpose of inducing...the purchase of drugs, devices or cosmetic...or other goods or services intended to diagnose, treat, mitigate, prevent or cure any human disease, pain, injury, deformity, nutritional deficiency or physical condition ...shall conspicuously disclose the profession in which he or she is licensed ...where no license is required ...such persons shall conspicuously disclose the major subject in which the degree was earned and the name of the institution that issued the degree." New York State General Business Law ("Advertising--Use of Title 'Doctor'," Chapter 65, S.3440, A.5376)

Maine: Unless licensed by the board, an individual may not practice medicine or surgery or a branch of medicine or surgery or claim to be legally licensed to practice medicine or surgery or a branch of medicine or surgery within the State by diagnosing, relieving in any degree or curing, or professing or attempting to diagnose, relieve or cure a human disease, ailment, defect or complaint, whether physical or mental, or of physical and mental origin, by attendance or by advice, or by prescribing or furnishing a drug, medicine, appliance, manipulation, method or a therapeutic agent whatsoever or in any other manner unless otherwise provided by statutes of this State. An individual licensed under chapter 36 may prefix the title "Doctor" or the letters "Dr." to that individual's name, as provided in section 2581, or a chiropractor licensed by this State may prefix the title "Doctor" or the letters "Dr." to that individual's name when accompanied by the word "Chiropractor," or a dentist duly licensed by this State may prefix the title "Doctor" or the letters "Dr." to that individual's name or a naturopathic doctor licensed by this State may prefix the title "Doctor" or the letters "Dr." to that individual's name when accompanied by the word "Naturopathy" or the words "Naturopathic Medicine" or an optometrist duly licensed under the laws of this State may prefix the title "Doctor" or the letters "Dr." to that individual's name when accompanied by the word "Optometrist" or a podiatrist licensed under the laws of this State may prefix the title "Doctor" or the letters "Dr." to that individual's name when accompanied by the word "Podiatrist" or "Chiropodist."

Standard practice (in the US at least) has long been that (i) real doctorate holders use the title professionally but not socially, (ii) MDs and doctors of divinity use the title both professionally and socially, and (iii) other "profesional" doctoral degree holders (e.g.: JDs) never use the title. There are a couple of other people who get a courtesy title of Dr. (ships doctors, for instance, whether or not they have an MD, and dentists ususally by statute get to use it based on a DDS). European practice varies widely - in a number of countries you can only use the title "Dr." if the country in question has passed a law recognizing the sort of degree you received from the specific institution you received it as being the equivalent of a local doctorate.

edited to add: of course, best practice (as opposed to traditional practice) in the US since its inception has been for no one to insist on any title in any setting other than "Mr." and applicable variants. Snootier universities seem to be about the only place this has any hope of sticking, though.

[spookyfish]

Originally posted by notcasesensitive
hard to believe that Philly choked again. Peter King's column today mentions that pre-game yesterday an Eagles fan said that Philly would win b/c they aren't Buffalo. Um, of course not - Buffalo made it to the Super Bowl... Wonder how much lower advertising rates will be for NE-Carolina than NE-Philly.

Both matchups would be lower rated than Indy-Philly. That's going to be one boring-ass game.

Maybe someone can refresh my memory, but didn't the NFL eliminate the off week between the Conference Championship games and the Super Bowl when they lenghtened the season, or am I imagining things? Why is the Super Bowl two weeks away this year?

[sebastian_dangerfield]

Originally posted by Bad_Rich_Chic
All ways of short-circuiting variants on the "if you can't hit the substance hit the table" strategy.

It is a bit tetchier to deal with in corp, I think, because in corp-world there aren't really many "precendents" or "regs" or other substantive authorities to ultimately fall back on - you have nothing but your experience. Therefore, someone claiming contrary relevant experience tends to hit at everyone else's insecurities in their basic competence in a way that might be different from other areas of practice. It takes some backbone to say "so what?"

Somebody told me years ago the rule "Last man to speak loses." I think it comes from an ancient IBM sales manual. I've always tried to live by it (of course, not on this board) and it seems to work. The other one that I notice works is "Never raise your voice." I seem to notice that things don't go too well for me when I (a) say too much, i.e., have to get the last word in, and (b) get angry.

I think most people overprepare and script their arguments or negotiations, so that when they should be listening to what the judge or other side is saying, they're instead planning their next comment. Judges are acutely aware of this, and I think it offends them. It also wastes time.

[purse junkie]

Originally posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy
I thought that Doctor standing alone isn't generally prohibited in these statutes, but only "doctor of medicine", "doctor of podiatry" etc.

The practice is boorish, but I think it's only actually illegal in a handful of states.

Dr. Greedy, Jd

Agreed. Addressing oneself as "Doctor" for a non-MD doctorate or "Esquire" for anything ever are the "Maestro" of the self-important egghead world. Either ought to be instant ground for perpetual social ostracism and both conspicuous and behind-the-back snickering.

That said, I got a big kick out of sending my 'baby' cousin her first letter with "Esq." after her name. She was thrilled.

[bilmore]

Originally posted by Bad_Rich_Chic
("docs 'Rn't 'us")

I have always preferred going by the more simple "effendi".

More respect, less ambivalence. Plus, no one ever expects you to opine on disgusting rashes at parties.

[ThrashersFan]

Originally posted by Bad_Rich_Chic
I thought most of those regs were limited to the actual practice of medicine (health advertising-related, or related to actually practicing medicine (which could muck you up if you are a physical therapist with a PhD in divinity but not an MD, I guess). Probably depends on local regs, but I'd imagine a hospital administrator with a doctorate in hospital administration might well have the right (legal and customary) to use "Dr." for their business.

Random statute examples:

And then you look in California where the law is:

"Any person, who uses in any sign, business card, letterhead or an advertisement the word 'doctor', the letters or prefix 'Dr.' or the letters 'M.D.', or any other term or letters indicating or implying that he is a physician and surgeon, physician, surgeon or practitioner under the terms of this or any other law, or that he is entitled to practice hereunder, or under any other law, without having at the time of so doing a valid, unrevoked certificate, as provided in this chapter, is guilty of a misdemeanor."

Would they prosecute someone who is using one of the terms and not trying to otherwise pass himself off as a physician -- don't know. I do know that in my industry I cannot let unlicensed persons go around with "Dr." on their business cards so I just tell them no -- no exceptions.

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally posted by sebastian_dangerfield
I think most people overprepare and script their arguments or negotiations, so that when they should be listening to what the judge or other side is saying, they're instead planning their next comment. Judges are acutely aware of this, and I think it offends them. It also wastes time.

Corporate deals are different because there is no Judge. It's just who's client blinks first; see Thurgreed's client, who says take it or leave it.
The only time when litigation gets like that is when you're doing the detail of a settlement agreement, and both sides have bought into "its over." It is often apparent puffery to say "this is a deal breaker" when you're talking about some secondary point.
Ain't nobody going to tell the client he's back in court so that we get the "admission that D was wrong" or some other detail.

Originally posted by ThrashersFan
And then you look in California where the law is:

"Any person, who uses in any sign, business card, letterhead or an advertisement the word 'doctor', the letters or prefix 'Dr.' or the letters 'M.D.', or any other term or letters indicating or implying that he is a physician and surgeon, physician, surgeon or practitioner under the terms of this or any other law, or that he is entitled to practice hereunder, or under any other law, without having at the time of so doing a valid, unrevoked certificate, as provided in this chapter, is guilty of a misdemeanor."

I'm thinking I could cut a big swath through the local universities with this one. Take that, you non-MD professor of Liberal Arts! How dare you make your students refer to you as "Dr."!

[notcasesensitive]

Originally posted by spookyfish
Both matchups would be lower rated than Indy-Philly. That's going to be one boring-ass game.

Maybe someone can refresh my memory, but didn't the NFL eliminate the off week between the Conference Championship games and the Super Bowl when they lenghtened the season, or am I imagining things? Why is the Super Bowl two weeks away this year?

It may be a result of the post-9/11 world. Remember how they had to cancel a week then and reschedule the Super Bowl? I believe a big payoff to the auto convention booked for the Superdome the rescheduled weekend was required in order to move the big game. I believe there's been a scheduled week off ever since.

[Bad_Rich_Chic]

Originally posted by ThrashersFan
And then you look in California where the law is:

"Any person, who uses in any sign, business card, letterhead or an advertisement the word 'doctor', the letters or prefix 'Dr.' or the letters 'M.D.', or any other term or letters indicating or implying that he is a physician and surgeon, physician, surgeon or practitioner under the terms of this or any other law, or that he is entitled to practice hereunder, or under any other law, without having at the time of so doing a valid, unrevoked certificate, as provided in this chapter, is guilty of a misdemeanor."

I'd note that, even under that statute, someone with "The Reverend Dr. Augustus Travail" or "Dr. Augustus Travail, DD" would get a pass because the use doesn't imply he is a physician.

Were I in charge of organizatonal compliance, however, I'd kick 'em to the curb, too.