Still Hating America.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally posted by ltl/fb
I am against a tit-for-tat, sinking to their level kind of thing, because I don't think it's constructive. On the other hand, this is (marginally) more substantive and relevant than the BJ was.

This wasn't tit-for-tat, not least because you had Republican political appointees doing the investigating. Comey appointed Fitzpatrick. Both of them were appointed by Bush.

Also, Fitzpatrick clearly was going after the littler fish to built a case against the bigger ones. But Libby doesn't seem likely to sing (to mix metaphors).

[SlaveNoMore]

Tyrone Slothrop
I think the framers were hip to the notion that other places might become states. Like California or Wyoming or Panama. Except that -- whoops -- Panama isn't a state. It's not one of the United States.

Nothing against McCain per se, and I think it's a stupid constitutional provision.

Obama got lucky and beat it by less than 2 years.

[SlaveNoMore]

Adder
You know, I might be able to agree with that in a lot of circumstances, including for those two, but the precedent was already set with Bill's BJ.

I'm sure Bill got blown by a lot of his interns, but I do think that proving he lied about a what as obvious as that is a bit easier to prove then lying about when you said something to somebody.

[SlaveNoMore]

sebastian_dangerfield
Total tab to us? $30 mil? Way to go, DC.

As to Fitz, fuck him. The higher road would have been to not prosecute, but excoriate Libby in the press. Now he's just shown himself as a man who'll whore it up to cover his own reputation.

:td:

[SlaveNoMore]

Tyrone Slothrop
Also, Fitzpatrick clearly was going after the littler fish to built a case against the bigger ones. But Libby doesn't seem likely to sing (to mix metaphors).

And once he realized there was no underlying crime, he should have dropped the whole thing.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally posted by SlaveNoMore
And once he realized there was no underlying crime, he should have dropped the whole thing.

I really hate dwelling on the parallel, but I don't recall that you had much patience for those arguments vis-a-vis Bill Clinton.

[sebastian_dangerfield]

Originally posted by ltl/fb
That's a bargain compared to the Clinton investigations, and this one actually had to do (at least tangentially) with national security.

Plus, as a percentage of GDP . . .

You don't want to read the emails I used to send about the Clinton thing. It still gets me angry. I think that was our country's most embarrassing moment. I almost fought people drunk arguing about that atrocious thing. If I had my way, we'd have grabbed the GOP leadership by the nose hairs and made
them apologize to Clinton and the nation on national television.

You'd be extreme if you saw prosecutorial abuse. I started out in criminal defense and was disgusted by the abuses. That's one of the few solemn duties people should not use for political gain. It's hard not to get extreme seeing people play with it, even when its used on people like Libby, who probably ought to be jailed just for being what they natively are.

[sebastian_dangerfield]

Originally posted by ltl/fb
You are all good until the last paragraph. And I don't think that the American people feel that Scooter Libby had "no choice but to lie" or that it is OK to lie about the types of conversations that he had. I think lying about those is worse than lying about extracurricular sexual activity. I just don't think that a federal case should necessarily be made out of it.

And, I think it was perfectly possible that there could have been (or may have been, and it didn't get uncovered) more culpable behavior than Libby's, so I don't think it was as wasted an investigation. At least the issue was substantive.

ETA I think it's when you use words like "scumbags" that I start to want to disagree with you. Because I don't like your approach. Or when you get so extreme. I am assuming you are not e.g. being an arbitrator in your spare time, now that you have left the law.

I go a little nuts over this issue and fully understand how that can turn a person off. I have the same reaction to things I dislike stylistically, even when I kind of agree with the substance.

I can't arbitrate because I can't stand even a smidge of irrationality, and people in litigation are irrational. I've blown up during settlement discussions many times. I don't give a shit about the outcome, but something really drives me nuts when a person refuses to compromise. I'm realizing more and more I'm a horribly frustrated moderate with a libertarian social agenda. I also hate men who want to "compete" with one another in business litigation. That drove me nuts. Its all boring shit. When you get a good deal, take it and move along. So many guys saw it as a "win or lose" thing and had to pummel the opponent. I hate the human element of the thing. If you enjoy court, they ought to shoot you for the betterment of humanity.

[SlaveNoMore]

Tyrone Slothrop
I really hate dwelling on the parallel, but I don't recall that you had much patience for those arguments vis-a-vis Bill Clinton.

Um, I hate pointing out how ridiculous the parallel is, given how many people were actually indicted and jailed because of the Whitewater investigation.

[Mmmm, Burger (C.J.)]

Originally posted by Hank Chinaski
the "natural born" stands on its own, not modifying "citizen." It was to eliminate test tube babies and clones. I understand Hamilton was a big Sci Fi reader and about killed everyone with his "what ifs."

Or he read Macbeth.

[Mmmm, Burger (C.J.)]

Originally posted by Spanky
Even if both parents are US citizens, I don't think if you are born outside of the US you are native born. You can get citizenship, but you are not native born.

Here are the relevant statutes.

[sebastian_dangerfield]

Considering his childish name, and reputation (from what I've heard) as a smug little twit, they ought to punish Libby by spanking him publicly on the steps of the Capitol.

I haven't decided whether it should be a over the knee thing or a "thank you sir, may I have another" fraternity paddling.

I'd normally say it should be bareass, but there's a dignity in that I'd rather not grant him. He should be spanked panted, like some sixth grader with a smart tongue. "Stand still laddy..."

[Adder]

Originally posted by sebastian_dangerfield
That is true, and I thgought about that when I wrote what I wrote. I figured, on the balance, everyone ought to lie in response to these witchhunts.

There are two problems with describing Fitzgerald this way. First, neither he nor the Dems started this investigation. And second, it too the investigation to determine that the leak itself was not a crime (apparently because the president authorized the release of classified information).

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally posted by SlaveNoMore
Um, I hate pointing out how ridiculous the parallel is, given how many people were actually indicted and jailed because of the Whitewater investigation.

All sorts of parallels between the two investigations are ridiculous, but the one I just made -- unlike the one you just made -- isn't.

[Secret_Agent_Man]

Originally posted by Tyrone Slothrop
Did the framers think that people born on a U.S. military encampment in a foreign country were "native born"? I think not.

two answers to your original question, Ty:

(a) U.S. military bases arer considered U.S. soil -- federal jurisdiction; and

what I think is the real answer . . .

(b) if your parents are both American citizens, so are you when you are born, wherever you are born.

Otherwise, no pregnant women should travel overseas, lest their children be condemed to life as a Frenchman.

S_A_M