Fashion Board 12-09-03 through 1-08-04

[sebastian_dangerfield]

Originally posted by purse junkie
I do like that it's 1776 feet tall. But the "Freedom Tower" is an annoying name--sounds like one of those idiotic Bush soundbite platitudes.

Agreed. Just call it the World Trade Center Tower One. I think that says everything that needs to be conveyed.

[Aloha Mr. Learned Hand]

Originally posted by Jack Manfred
There's an arcade on Broadway in San Francisco into which we would occassionally stumble. Drunk twentysomething guys shouldn't challenge 12 year old Asian kids on Street Fighter 2. There's a flurry of moves, you die in 10 or 20 seconds, and then you have to get more quarters. Not good times.

I've done this too, but only at games I am very well-versed at... In the days when the original Mortal Kombat was still in arcades, a buddy of mine and I did something similar. He wasn't very good, so I was showing him some moves and these kids start watching and want to play us. Naturally I let them play my buddy first and of course one of them kicked his ass and were talking shit.

I then proceeded to drop the kid's fighter twice in a row with a series of combos in about 20 seconds each, and closed the deal with the Scorpion fatality that incinerated his guy. After they picked their jaws up off the floor I showed them how I beat him.

I have a PS2 and I know I could take most of them in the EA sports games (especially Madden) and probably SOCOM Navy Seals. Takes a lot of practice on the games, which I only really get when everyone else is in bed.

[Colymbosathon ecplecticos]

Dissent. Call it the Osama bin Laden Suppository. I think that says everything that needs to be conveyed.

[bilmore]

Originally posted by sebastian_dangerfield
All that said, you can only flirt with someone who seems receptive at the outset. Trying to charm the frigid federal judge's clerk who was phi beta kappa, editor of law review editor and head of the sexism in law journal and stares at you with contempt during your first meeting will never work. Some people have no personality and simply can't be flirted with and will fuck you over very hard if they even think you're trying to charm them. Luckily, these are the people you'll never meet socially...

I think you can do quite well charming such people. What they don't react well to is including some sexual element in that charm. When someone says "flirt", I think of quasi-hitting-on behavior, which is different from simply doing what works best to attempt to connect with someone on a personal level and thus establish a relationship that gets me what I want at work. Friendly conversation and easy banter work to establish a relationship - adding a sexual component to it usually, in the long run, doesn't add to things positively in a professional context.

(Written as I read the three latest complaints alleging, with some good chance of success, that a flirting environment is a hostile environment - so maybe I'm just warped today.)

[Not Bob]

Originally posted by greatwhitenorthchick
So what is the definition of flirting?

That's the $64 question, isn't it?

I distinguish between being nice to someone and flirting. I think that flirting has to have some element of sexual whatever in the mix for it to be flirting.

If I smile at Judge Masterson's 65 year old secretary while looking at the pictures of her grandchildren, that is not flirting. However, if I smile and say "you are getting coal in your stocking for that one" when she tells me an off-color joke (punch-line from the last one she told me, about the lesbian frogs: "hey, we do taste like chicken"), that is flirting. Even though she's got no interest in someone my age and vice versa.

[bold_n_brazen]

Originally posted by ABBAKiss
Daily. Strike that -- Constantly. Don't we all, depending on your definition of flirting?

My deifinition of flirting is:

Behavior that would lead the flirtee to believe that, should the correct set of circumstances ever occur, the flirtor would be amendable to certain acts of indiscretion.

That being said...I once flirted with a married male colleague, thinking this was a harmless thing. After many months of sneaking around, performing certain acts of indiscretion, his wife found out. It was not pretty.

I learned my lesson then: Never flirt with anyone you are actually attracted to, unless you are ready and willing to follow through with the flirtation and its inevitable consequences. Now that I'm married, I never flirt with anyone I'd actually like to sleep with who might actually want to sleep with me. Too dangerous.

[spookyfish]

Originally posted by evenodds
This was the topic of conversation over drinks last night.

I flirt frequently, especially with my clients and colleagues. I work with a lot of men and it's just the way it is.

I would have to honestly say, rarely, if ever. I think there are two reasons. The first is, my natural disposition is more on an introvert. The second reason is that there's always the chance, especially if you are a guy, that it will be taken the wrong way or as something else entirely. That usually means that my approach is that I won't come close to using those tactics unless I (a) know somebody pretty well, and (b) know how they generally react to things. I guess my approach, rather than flirting, is to joke around with people, because it tends to be something you can do with members of both sexes.

Originally posted by evenodds
Among my male friends, the more attractive they are, the more they flirt with the laydies. Also, the more they deal with the public, the more they flirt.

I don't know about your first proposition as a general rule. I think it has to do with a basic component of their personality much more than looks. I've known a lot of guys who would be considered average looking or worse who have honed some incredible raps that they use on the women, but these guys are natural born schmoozers with brass cojones.

The dealing with the public thing may be a chicken/egg argument. Extroverts tend to gravitate toward those jobs where they are dealing with the public all the time, so that shouldn't be surprising. They were probably excellent flirts before they got involved dealing with the public. It works for them, and that's why they do well in those types of jobs. People who are less comfortable with this sort of things would tend to avoid those jobs where they are dealing with the public constantly.

[sebastian_dangerfield]

Originally posted by bilmore
I think you can do quite well charming such people. What they don't react well to is including some sexual element in that charm. When someone says "flirt", I think of quasi-hitting-on behavior, which is different from simply doing what works best to attempt to connect with someone on a personal level and thus establish a relationship that gets me what I want at work. Friendly conversation and easy banter work to establish a relationship - adding a sexual component to it usually, in the long run, doesn't add to things positively in a professional context.

(Written as I read the three latest complaints alleging, with some good chance of success, that a flirting environment is a hostile environment - so maybe I'm just warped today.)

Being nice to someone is sexy. Whe I call anyone, male or female, I treat them respectfully and try to develop a rapport that brings everything down to an informal level. Most people appreciate this. However, every now and again you'll meet someone who is either anti-social, cynical or emotionally damaged who will respond to friendliness and attempts at informality with hesitance or disgust. I find Federal Law Clerks to be of this ilk. I don't know why, but they're just nasty, whereas their state counterparts tend to be friendlier. That's just one of many examples I could offer.

Some people just always think you're trying to fuck them over, and you can't flirt with those people.

[purse junkie]

Originally posted by Colymbosathon ecplecticos
Dissent. Call it the Osama bin Laden Suppository. I think that says everything that needs to be conveyed.

That's a beautiful sentiment. Exactly the soul-stirring message of timeless strength and resilience I want public architecture to put forth for decades into the future.

[purse junkie]

Originally posted by sebastian_dangerfield
Some people just always think you're trying to fuck them over, and you can't flirt with those people.

These tend to be disappointed, damaged romantics. Simple politeness will make them far less likely to remember everything that's scarred their past and want to bitch-slap you in misplaced vengeance than flirting will.

[greatwhitenorthchick]

Originally posted by spookyfish
The second reason is that there's always the chance, especially if you are a guy, that it will be taken the wrong way or as something else entirely.

2 things.

When I used to bartend, before I clued in (I started when I was 17 and clueless), I used to be nice to everyone. A lot of people interpret just being nice as flirting. It comes with the territory in a bar, or course, but I learned fast how to keep being nice and yet fend off trouble. However, I don't think I ever became an expert. It's difficult.

The other night at a firm holiday function, this girl that I work with said "my office mate thinks you're hot", which is of course the kind of stuff that I love to hear, especially since her office mate is a very nice non-threatening person who is junior to me. Even though I smiled and said "that's a nice thing to say" or something like that, she realized what she said and then started falling all over herself saying "ohmigod, did I just sexually harrass you? I'm so sorry - blah blah blah". I assured her that I took it as a compliment and that I did not feel harassed at all.

But this is just to say that it doesn't matter who is doing it, women or men - both can feel like it's going to be taken the wrong way.

[taxwonk]

Originally posted by robustpuppy
Does barely containing one's revulsion/contempt/pity count as flirting?

It depends on the guy. And the size of your tits.

[Replaced_Texan]

Originally posted by sebastian_dangerfield
Being nice to someone is sexy. Whe I call anyone, male or female, I treat them respectfully and try to develop a rapport that brings everything down to an informal level. Most people appreciate this.

This may smack of regionalism, but I don't find that to be the case in all parts of the country, especially the northeast. It could be that my particular brand of trying to develop a rapport, such as asking someone how their day is going as they're checking me out of the grocery store, only works down here and in the west. I tend to hit brick walls in the northeast. Oh, and in the UK.

[Did you just call me Coltrane?]

Originally posted by Replaced_Texan
I'm nice to a fault to a hell of a lot of people, but I don't generally flirt with co-workers or anyone else that I work with.

FWIW, you have passed the hangover torch along to me today. But my underwear is still intact.

And so is my bra.

Kill me now.

[bilmore]

Originally posted by sebastian_dangerfield
Being nice to someone is sexy.

When the drop-dead-cute 32-year-old VP who seems to favor form-fitting clothing stops in just to chat, that's sexy. When the shorter, hairier, fatter version of Danny DeVito stops by her office just to chat, that's . . . nice. I think you're confusing concepts.

Just remember - it takes but one casual comment from the frigid bitch clerk to her boss about the jerk who acts or speaks inappropriately to really ruin your day. Or week. Or chances, ever, for a nice outcome in that court.

(Sorry. It's employment law day here.)