Removing the feeding tube from our aging hipster plaid pants

[andViolins]

Originally posted by NotFromHere
Even though he's a wife beater and has the disco moves of a freight train?

Whoa there missy. It was his girlfriend. Not his wife. Keep in mind that, based upon judicial interpretation of Ohio's recently passed Constitutional Amendment on gay marriage, Scott can beat the snot out of her without much fear.

aV

Originally posted by Hank Chinaski
the office-

original story this week, and good new boss issues. I'm starting to like this

Dog Show Q.- Paigow, isn't PETA against dog shows? How can you wathc them? It seems like they make the dogs do crap that PETA would consider quite cruel.

I do not know the official PETA position on dog shows (as opposed to dog breeding). What "crap" do they "make" the dogs do? Have you been to a dog show? They are basically on the main stage for five minutes. Otherwise they are hanging out in the area where their breed is. Often times they are in crates (esp the small breeds) but dogs are usually crate trained these days and think of crates as a safe space as I understand. I am sure they get annnoyed when children go up to them and poke their fingers in the crate and make high pithced noises, but that is more of a poor parenting issue than a dog show issue.

so what is the problem exactly that PETA would have?

[notcasesensitive]

Originally posted by paigowprincess
I do not know the official PETA position on dog shows (as opposed to dog breeding). What "crap" do they "make" the dogs do? Have you been to a dog show? They are basically on the main stage for five minutes. Otherwise they are hanging out in the area where their breed is. Often times they are in crates (esp the small breeds) but dogs are usually crate trained these days and think of crates as a safe space as I understand. I am sure they get annnoyed when children go up to them and poke their fingers in the crate and make high pithced noises, but that is more of a poor parenting issue than a dog show issue.

so what is the problem exactly that PETA would have?

Well, according to Ask Carla on peta.org (http://www.askcarla.com/answers.asp?...ndanswerID=378):

Q: I heard a rumor that PETA releases dogs from their crates at dog shows. Is this true?


A: Not at all! This accusation is not only untrue but absolutely absurd.

Although PETA supports dog obedience trials, especially those that allow the participation of mixed breeds, we don't like conformation dog shows since they promote dogs based on appearance, and many of the “desirable” physical traits can cause a variety of health problems in many breeds. In addition, many breed standards call for tail-docking and ear-cropping, which are unnecessary and cruel. Dog shows also promote purebred dogs (and therefore breeding), rather then rescuing homeless mixed breeds from shelters.

However, it would be contrary to all PETA believes in to frighten, disorient, or risk physical harm to dogs by letting them out of their show crates. Interestingly, the only individuals who would benefit from carrying out such irresponsible and cruel actions and placing the blame on PETA are those who are threatened by the progress PETA is making in changing industries that depend on animal suffering for profit.

Sounds pretty anti-dog shows to me.

Originally posted by NotFromHere
OK.

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Space

I was sad to see Anwar go, but he's really been slipping the past few weeks and didn't really develop the rabid fans like the others have. And he really didn't do a good job on the Earth Wind and Fire. Heck, one of the guys in office services does a much better rendition of that song.

No doubt now that Scott and Anthony are next. I don't know how Scott has managed to hang in there for these past few weeks - kind of like Chris on the Apprentice - someone was always a little bit worse.

Bo is kind of a one trick pony - if he sings Spinning Wheel by Steppenwolf then he'll have run the table - he'll be out of songs that he can nail.

My boy Constantine is getting better - I really thought in the beginning that he'd be gone by now.

Paula Abdul has admitted taking "pain medication" for an accident she had decades ago. Thus explaining the night she couldn't form sentences or speak clearly. No shock to anyone. And she's gotten a little too hooked on the tooth bleach. She needs to cut back a little.

SPOILER






I started off an Anwar fan but he basically sounded the same in very performance. I thought he did a good job on Tuesday and sounded like EWF but he is boring. He would be on that radio station that plays Kenny G and Yanni,

I dont think that the twirpy freak is guaranteed to go in two weeks. I think a weak Vonzelle performance could send her packing before that guy. Remember how face in the crowd she was for awhile?

How can you say Bo is a one trick pony? He just did seventies disco amazingly well and I thoguht he coudlnt take that genre. He actully does worse with some of his bread and butter (southern rock - see Remedy and Free Bird for example). His voice is absoltely amazing and unique and he is the only one who doesnt sound karaoke when he sings. Like Fantasia. SImon was dead on. And he also seems like a beautfilu person. I think I am in love.

Do you and Abba trade music files?

Originally posted by NotFromHere
Even though he's a wife beater and has the disco moves of a freight train?

I think Paigow's right about Bo, there aren't enough voting elderly women who remember Steppenwolf or Blood Sweat & Tears to vote for him. Constantine has, at least, the Justin Guarini effect going for him. Rabid females who will call all night just to get him through to the next round. They're (the biased media) saying that Scott is having the John Stevens effect. Not good, not bad - different enough, nobody really hates him - the ordinary guy vote.

Stick to other people's journalism. Rehashing other people's AI opinions does not suit you.

[robustpuppy]

Originally posted by paigowprincess
I do not know the official PETA position on dog shows (as opposed to dog breeding). What "crap" do they "make" the dogs do? Have you been to a dog show? They are basically on the main stage for five minutes. Otherwise they are hanging out in the area where their breed is. Often times they are in crates (esp the small breeds) but dogs are usually crate trained these days and think of crates as a safe space as I understand. I am sure they get annnoyed when children go up to them and poke their fingers in the crate and make high pithced noises, but that is more of a poor parenting issue than a dog show issue.

so what is the problem exactly that PETA would have?

Although there's little inherently cruel about dog shows, dog shows and dog breeding are very closely connected, as show standards - which are not necessarily keyed to health -- drive breeding standards, and show success undoubtedly increases purebred breeding.

On the health issue, for example, bulldogs are bred to have heads so large that their mothers cannot birth them naturally, they must be delivered by c-section. As another less extreme example, British labrador retrievers in dog shows are much fatter than any veterinarian would recommend, but they are kept that way for the looks of it. (I own such a lab, she is not a show dog, and I did buy her from a breeder, shame on me. I also love to watch dog shows.) Anyway, here's something from PETA's website.

Edited to delete quote that ncs googled that much more quickly than I did.

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally posted by notcasesensitive
Well, according to Ask Carla on peta.org (http://www.askcarla.com/answers.asp?...ndanswerID=378):

Sounds pretty anti-dog shows to me.

I was just thinking more from the standpoint of the training on Showdogs. It looks like intensive training to make the dogs learn to behave in a way that is foreign to them. PETA has the whole "Animal companion" thing and forced them to strut walk and do the rest seemed out of what it would want to see.

I didn't think of the ego issues that are being forced onto the mixed breeds that can't make the cut.

[Mmmm, Burger (C.J.)]

Originally posted by notcasesensitive

• . . . However, it would be contrary to all PETA believes in to frighten, disorient, or risk physical harm to dogs by letting them out of their show crates. . . .

Sounds pretty anti-dog shows to me.

Isn't this what they do to minks and other similar fur animals?

[robustpuppy]

Originally posted by Hank Chinaski
i was just thinking more from the standpoint of the training on Showdogs. It looks like intensive training to make the dogs learn to behave in a way that is foreign to them. PETA has the whol "Animal companion" think and forced them to strut walk and do the rest seemed out of what it would want to see.

i didn't think of the ego issues that are being forced onto the mixed breeds that can't make the cut.

Yeah, those dogs just HATE getting treats all day and sleeping in bed with their owners. Show dogs are the most coddled dogs in the world, and most dogs like to be trained, and like to please their people. You don't really think the dog feels demeaned by "strut walking" after his handler's liver treat, do you?

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally posted by robustpuppy
Yeah, those dogs just HATE getting treats all day and sleeping in bed with their owners. Show dogs are the most coddled dogs in the world, and most dogs like to be trained, and like to please their people. You don't really think the dog feels demeaned by "strut walking" after his handler's liver treat, do you?

No. But i eat cow meat too. PETA can have some pretty black/white rules.

Originally posted by notcasesensitive
Well, according to Ask Carla on peta.org (http://www.askcarla.com/answers.asp?...ndanswerID=378):

Sounds pretty anti-dog shows to me.

I think PETA might not have all their facts here. While I understand the "how can you breed when there are thousands of dogs being killed" position and agree with it as it pertains to certain breeders, it is not that cut and dry. Many breeders only breed when their puppies are in demand and take deposits. These puppy buyers are not necessarily people who would have gotten a sweet homelesss mongrel from the pound if they couldnt get a purebred. I do think there is value in restoring, maintaining and improving the breeds that are such a key part of history, culture and society. And there are breeders who go to great efforts to preserve the breeds. See for eexample the four people who went to the Congo in the seventies to save the Basenji by adding new blood to the breed. It is the "puppy mills" that a good breeder will say "breeds out" the breed that are doing the damage. And these people arent going to dog shows. Of course some ignorant schmuck might watcha dog show and say, "gee that parsons russell terrier is adorable' and go to the internet and buy one from a puppy mill. But this asshole shoudlnt have a dog in the first place, mongrel or pure bred, bc he likley will end up putting in the shelter when he realizes what dog ownership entails. Costs, time, love, care, patience, training, etc.

I think there is too much breeding goign on and there are too many people who buy dogs on impulse. It is the breedrs responsibility not to overbreed or to sell their dogs to just anyone. Dog shows are created to promote careful breeding. Of course there are those risks of attracting the ignorant tools but there are also the great benefits as well. And PETA is dfw that its just a beauty contest.

Also, dog shows often have staging areas where the ASPCA and other rescue orgs can promote their dogs. My sister saved a cat at a cat show.

The dog problem in this country is largely due to too many stupid people letting the population get out of control. It would also help if landlords permitted dogs to be kept in apartments. But then the people who would choose an apartment over the aibility to have a dog obvviously didnt want the dog that badly in the first place and maybe shoudnt have one. you can always find a place to rent that allows dogs- you just are much more limited.

OK, thats my spiel. I am sure you all enjoyed my getting all mmmmmmmmmm on animmmmmmmmmmmmmal issues.

[Montecore]

Originally posted by paigowprincess
I think PETA might not have all their facts here. While I understand the "how can you breed when there are thousands of dogs being killed" position and agree with it as it pertains to certain breeders, it is not that cut and dry. Many breeders only breed when their puppies are in demand and take deposits. These puppy buyers are not necessarily people who would have gotten a sweet homelesss mongrel from the pound if they couldnt get a purebred. I do think there is value in restoring, maintaining and improving the breeds that are such a key part of history, culture and society. And there are breeders who go to great efforts to preserve the breeds. See for eexample the four people who went to the Congo in the seventies to save the Basenji by adding new blood to the breed. It is the "puppy mills" that a good breeder will say "breeds out" the breed that are doing the damage. And these people arent going to dog shows. Of course some ignorant schmuck might watcha dog show and say, "gee that parsons russell terrier is adorable' and go to the internet and buy one from a puppy mill. But this asshole shoudlnt have a dog in the first place, mongrel or pure bred, bc he likley will end up putting in the shelter when he realizes what dog ownership entails. Costs, time, love, care, patience, training, etc.

I think there is too much breeding goign on and there are too many people who buy dogs on impulse. It is the breedrs responsibility not to overbreed or to sell their dogs to just anyone. Dog shows are created to promote careful breeding. Of course there are those risks of attracting the ignorant tools but there are also the great benefits as well. And PETA is dfw that its just a beauty contest.

Also, dog shows often have staging areas where the ASPCA and other rescue orgs can promote their dogs. My sister saved a cat at a cat show.

The dog problem in this country is largely due to too many stupid people letting the population get out of control. It would also help if landlords permitted dogs to be kept in apartments. But then the people who would choose an apartment over the aibility to have a dog obvviously didnt want the dog that badly in the first place and maybe shoudnt have one. you can always find a place to rent that allows dogs- you just are much more limited.

OK, thats my spiel. I am sure you all enjoyed my getting all mmmmmmmmmm on animmmmmmmmmmmmmal issues.

2.

Originally posted by Hank Chinaski
I was just thinking more from the standpoint of the training on Showdogs. It looks like intensive training to make the dogs learn to behave in a way that is foreign to them. PETA has the whole "Animal companion" thing and forced them to strut walk and do the rest seemed out of what it would want to see.

I didn't think of the ego issues that are being forced onto the mixed breeds that can't make the cut.

You know, Hank, I was with you for awhile on that. Did you read The Hidden Lives of Dogs? Basically the author says that dogs are dogs and not humans and should be allowed to lead a dogs life.

Now, while I agree with this, especially the "dogs are dogs" part, the reality is that unless you live out in the sticks, you have to train your dog to function in a society which is not natural to the dog. Otherwise he could run off, get hit by a car, get over aggresive, you name it.

Originally posted by Mmmm, Burger (C.J.)
Isn't this what they do to minks and other similar fur animals?

When is the next mink show? I am so there. I love watching them run around their cages endlessy 24/7 having panic attacks. Good show.

[notcasesensitive]

Originally posted by paigowprincess
I think PETA might not have all their facts here. While I understand the "how can you breed when there are thousands of dogs being killed" position and agree with it as it pertains to certain breeders, it is not that cut and dry. Many breeders only breed when their puppies are in demand and take deposits. These puppy buyers are not necessarily people who would have gotten a sweet homelesss mongrel from the pound if they couldnt get a purebred. I do think there is value in restoring, maintaining and improving the breeds that are such a key part of history, culture and society. And there are breeders who go to great efforts to preserve the breeds. See for eexample the four people who went to the Congo in the seventies to save the Basenji by adding new blood to the breed. It is the "puppy mills" that a good breeder will say "breeds out" the breed that are doing the damage. And these people arent going to dog shows. Of course some ignorant schmuck might watcha dog show and say, "gee that parsons russell terrier is adorable' and go to the internet and buy one from a puppy mill. But this asshole shoudlnt have a dog in the first place, mongrel or pure bred, bc he likley will end up putting in the shelter when he realizes what dog ownership entails. Costs, time, love, care, patience, training, etc.

I think there is too much breeding goign on and there are too many people who buy dogs on impulse. It is the breedrs responsibility not to overbreed or to sell their dogs to just anyone. Dog shows are created to promote careful breeding. Of course there are those risks of attracting the ignorant tools but there are also the great benefits as well. And PETA is dfw that its just a beauty contest.

Also, dog shows often have staging areas where the ASPCA and other rescue orgs can promote their dogs. My sister saved a cat at a cat show.

The dog problem in this country is largely due to too many stupid people letting the population get out of control. It would also help if landlords permitted dogs to be kept in apartments. But then the people who would choose an apartment over the aibility to have a dog obvviously didnt want the dog that badly in the first place and maybe shoudnt have one. you can always find a place to rent that allows dogs- you just are much more limited.

OK, thats my spiel. I am sure you all enjoyed my getting all mmmmmmmmmm on animmmmmmmmmmmmmal issues.

I think you give breeders too much credit. Even reputable breeders (of which, I've known quite a few, thanks to ridiculous overexposure to the dog show lifestyle as a youngster) are in it as a business. It is not some noble "I have to carry on the perfect line of this breed" so much as its an incentive to have as many puppies from as many champion sires and bitches into the hands of as many people for as much money as possible. Many of them pay for their dog show circuit off of what they can make breeding and selling puppies.

These people love dogs - don't get me wrong - in fact they are obsessed with them and that obsession allows them to justify their actions as for the good of the "breed", but much of the actual motivation is far less noble than that.