Politics: J'accuse!

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally posted by Sidd Finch
I'll take it as a joke when you actually say something that indicates respect for the military service of a decorated veteran.


I find it deeply offensive when Americans refuse to do this. It is something I used to see on the left quite frequently -- I remember nearly getting into a fistfight at a march in DC many years ago, after the Grenada invasion, because people were screaming at a US soldier for having come to the march to see what people were saying. Disgusting.

Equally disgusting, but I think far more hypocritical, is when Repubs who repeatedly profess their love and admiration for the military behave in the same way, because the individual who served his country in wartime, by actually going to war, happens to be a political opponent.

Am I on ignore? I've been saying that I repsect the guy's decision all day. But when he plays up the differences between his Vietnam era record and Bush's, isn't it fair for someone to inquire about the merits of those differences?

I mean, if Bush was saying "I was a fighter pilot, man that means I one bad-ass", and start showing Independence Day at rallys, wouldn't it be fair to say, "You can't prove you were even there."

When Kerry's people imply Bush was a coward in comparision and used family to get out of Vietnam, its fair for the other side to say "how'd you get out of country so quick, John." When he pumps up his 3 purple hearts, its a fair question to ask "what were the injuries?"

In the end none of it matters, and its just early mud. Anyone from that time knows tons of people did what Kerry did, what W did and what billy did. Those people recognize the acts of 20 year old men in 68-72 aren't really instructive as to the present day man.

It kind of like the Bullshit of someone who wants to be on the Supreme Court has to apparently claim to never smoked pot. I mean honestly, someone under 50 who hasn't smoked pot is too weird for the Court or the White House.

[Monstrosity]

Originally posted by Say_hello_for_me
THe response has been that the media has ignored doing this for Afghanistan and other warzones. Hey, if they want to start doing it for all dead servicemen, maybe once a year or once a month or something, I'm all in favor. Still, it does seem a little bit political.

Was it political when the NYT ran capsule bios of the people who died on 9/11? They don't do this for everyone who dies.

[Sidd Finch]

Originally posted by bilmore
Cool. How do you extract one line of my post without seeing the rest? I'm impressed, mostly at how your faux indignation fits so nicely into Kerry's "elect me 'cuz I bravely killed soldiers in an unjust war that I believed in deeply for our evil country" theme.

Tell me what I missed in your post. Tell me the part where you actually show some respect for his military service, or for any Dem's. Your strawman characterization of Kerry's position, above, shows that the line I "extracted" is a perfect indication of your complete refusal to acknowledge the man's service.

And it's not faux indignation (really, Bilmore -- you of all people should avoid trying to use French words, you just fuck it up). I would be equally disgusted if any Dem were to attack a Repub's service in the same way. But Dems generally have avoided such attacks because they are stupid.


eta: The attacks are stupid, not Dems. Dems are often pretty stupid, but not in this context; they generally know that if they ever confront a Repub who actually served in the military, they need to be respectful of that.

[ltl/fb]

Originally posted by Did you just call me Coltrane?
I thought this was Bush's platform?

Bush isn't actually killing anyone. He's sending the brave flower of our American youth to do so in his stead. He's hiding behind their camoflage shirts and freeze-dried rations. He interprets their willingness to serve our country and to allow our elected officials (and oil industry insiders) to make decisions affecting their very lives as support for his policies.

Shit, that sounded kinda good, even as it annoyed me. Once again, I'd like to say I'm glad I'm not in a state that's getting pres advertising. Which is not to say I'm thrilled that the electoral votes will go to groundcover, but I guess there are always tradeoffs in life.

[andViolins]

Originally posted by Not Me
Is this a moderator-less forum now that Ty has been deleted or does Penske still post here?

Shouldn't there be an Al Haig sock showing up about now? Granted, not as funny as Python, but humorous in its own way nonetheless.

aV

[Sidd Finch]

Originally posted by Mmmm, Burger (C.J.)
Bush served in the military clinton did not.

Ah, yes. George protected the nation of Alabama from air attack. By not showing up for duty (probably was too drunk to fly).

[Monstrosity]

Originally posted by Not Me
Are you still the moderator?

As soon as I settle on a name and avatar, I will be undefenestrated and remoderatorized.

[Mmmm, Burger (C.J.)]

Originally posted by Monstrosity
Was it political when the NYT ran capsule bios of the people who died on 9/11? They don't do this for everyone who dies.

While we're talking about the war dead, was anyone else troubled by all the attention that Pat Tillman received in death, principally (if not solely) because he was a former NFL player? Sure, we should mourn and thank all the dead, but why was he particularly more deserving of that attention? Because he gave up a lot of money to join the military? That doesn't seem enough--it's at most a difference of degree.

And this isn't like Ted Williams or Bob Feller getting killed--Pat Tillman was not exactly a household football name.

[Not Me]

Originally posted by Monstrosity
Was it political when the NYT ran capsule bios of the people who died on 9/11? They don't do this for everyone who dies.

That's a bad analogy. Ignoring the soldiers dying in Afghanistan while focusing on the deaths in Iraq is not only politicaly, it is awful to do to the families of those who died in Afghanistan.

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally posted by Mmmm, Burger (C.J.)
And this isn't like ......... Bob Feller getting killed

did he die? I need to pop my cherry

edt: sidd disclaimer I really don't want my DP picks to die, not really really.

[Did you just call me Coltrane?]

Originally posted by ltl/fb
Which is not to say I'm thrilled that the electoral votes will go to groundcover, but I guess there are always tradeoffs in life.

Yeah, I'm getting the good end of not being forced to watch them. My state goes my way.

Actually, my city goes my way. My state hates my city.

[ltl/fb]

Originally posted by Mmmm, Burger (C.J.)
While we're talking about the war dead, was anyone else troubled by all the attention that Pat Tillman received in death, principally (if not solely) because he was a former NFL player? Sure, we should mourn and thank all the dead, but why was he particularly more deserving of that attention? Because he gave up a lot of money to join the military? That doesn't seem enough--it's at most a difference of degree.

And this isn't like Ted Williams or Bob Feller getting killed--Pat Tillman was not exactly a household football name.

Yes. And there was somethign in the news about a TX company giving his family a special gift or something -- I think there are more than enough TX casualties to whose families gifts could be given, they don't need to go adopt the family getting the most media coverage yet.

[Mmmm, Burger (C.J.)]

Originally posted by ltl/fb
Yes. And there was somethign in the news about a TX company giving his family a special gift or something -- I think there are more than enough TX casualties to whose families gifts could be given, they don't need to go adopt the family getting the most media coverage yet.

And probably the least in need of gifts. I'm guessing that $2.5m salary (or whatever) is probably a bit better than the one most of the enlisted men getting killed had in their previous jobs. Or their parents'. put together.

[Mmmm, Burger (C.J.)]

Originally posted by Hank Chinaski
did he die? I need to pop my cherry

edt: sidd disclaimer I really don't want my DP picks to die, not really really.

No, but I don't think he's been enlisted since Korea. It would be news if he were killed in combat this year.

[Did you just call me Coltrane?]

Originally posted by Mmmm, Burger (C.J.)
While we're talking about the war dead, was anyone else troubled by all the attention that Pat Tillman received in death, principally (if not solely) because he was a former NFL player? Sure, we should mourn and thank all the dead, but why was he particularly more deserving of that attention? Because he gave up a lot of money to join the military? That doesn't seem enough--it's at most a difference of degree.

And this isn't like Ted Williams or Bob Feller getting killed--Pat Tillman was not exactly a household football name.

I agree, but adjusted dollar-wise, I'll bet Tillman gave up more cash than Teddy Ballgame.

Of course, Ted was not only one of the best players in baseball, he was also, according to reports, the best pilot in WWII and Korea.

Just a stud.