General discussion - Mom and Dad Esq.

[Greedy,Greedy,Greedy]

Originally posted by dtb
Absolutely. I don't disagree with anything you said. My only point was that in those cases where there REALLY IS a kid with the condition, it is important to consider medication. And that when medication is properly prescribed (meaning, for a kid that actually suffers from ADD), there are potential harms in NOT giving it to him/her.

Who would disagree with the idea that unnecessary medication is a bad thing? I certainly didn't intend to convey that message, and I certainly am not the opinion that Ritalin should be passed out like candy.

I didn't read you that way; my objections were mostly to Atticus' approach, which I read as overdiscounting the potential for drugs to do good, but I also read you as putting too much weight in the studies and the last fifty years of experience. My experience has led me to believe that the first forty of those fifty years were terribly unproductive!

[lookingformarket]

Originally posted by baltassoc
He still doesn't have a decent J O B, but he's living the dream.

Your parents have two lawyers? I'm sorry.

[baltassoc]

Originally posted by lookingformarket
Your parents have two lawyers? I'm sorry.

Perhaps I am dense here, but what makes you think that?

[Atticus Grinch]

Originally posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy
I didn't read you that way; my objections were mostly to Atticus' approach, which I read as overdiscounting the potential for drugs to do good, but I also read you as putting too much weight in the studies and the last fifty years of experience. My experience has led me to believe that the first forty of those fifty years were terribly unproductive!

I don't discount the ability of drugs to do wonders for kids with severe diagnoses. Last I heard, neither ADD nor ADHD were simply a yes/no proposition. I would hope the degree would play a role in the medication process, too. I used the term "unmanageable" for a reason.

I think I shared on the other board my sister's experience with a parent who pulled her son off Ritalin for the achievement portion of an achievement/aptitude disparity test, and put him back on for the aptitude portion. She chemically created a 20 percentile disparity, making her son eligible for additional district funding. That story left a bad taste in my mouth that has affected my views on the role of medication.

[Greedy,Greedy,Greedy]

Originally posted by Atticus Grinch
I don't discount the ability of drugs to do wonders for kids with severe diagnoses. Last I heard, neither ADD nor ADHD were simply a yes/no proposition. I would hope the degree would play a role in the medication process, too. I used the term "unmanageable" for a reason.

I think I shared on the other board my sister's experience with a parent who pulled her son off Ritalin for the achievement portion of an achievement/aptitude disparity test, and put him back on for the aptitude portion. She chemically created a 20 percentile disparity, making her son eligible for additional district funding. That story left a bad taste in my mouth that has affected my views on the role of medication.

Or did she avoid chemically masking a 20% or greater disparity?

Probably the accurate test, if being used soley for purposes of diagnosing need for support, would be entirely w/o Ritalin, or would be both with and without. The problem is that if it is an achievement/aptitude test they are probably not just using it for diagnostic purposes but for all kinds of other purposes (curriculum development, school funding, advancement, etc.).

But the more critical and disturbing issue here is not the behavior of the individual mother but the behavior of the school district! Why the hell would a school district deny the service that might help the kid get off Ritalin at some point because the Ritalin masks the issues; this kid has not had their problem solved, the drug is just helping to manage it so they can keep learning, and the kid still needs the support. This the kind of behavior on the school districts' part that has turned serving people with learning disabilities into a game where the school tries to find ways to deny benefits while the parents try to find ways to get benefits.

When this happens in our own school district, and it does all the time, we just reach into our back pockets and go out and buy the support. But most families can't do that.

[viet_mom]

I've had Vietbabe home now for 9 months and have not had a problem until now. First, the cat (male, neutered, declawed) went into the nursery, jumped up on the dressing table and peed on the diaper changing thing. I didn't see him do it but smelled it when I went in. It was no big deal b/c I wasn't using the table anymore - I change her on a towel on the bed in the nursery. So I ditched it.

But then he did it right where I change her on the bed. Not a fun thing to change the whole bed and buy a rubber mattress cover and now have to keep the door closed all the time. Looks like I forgot once and he did it again. Had to clean all the stuff again while schlepping the baby up and down the stairs to the laundry.

Now - he is peeing downstairs in the living room on the blankets the baby and I cuddle in. I washed them all and now keep them in a closet. But he always finds something to pee on. He must smell the baby's urine and think that's the place to pee. Have not changed his litterbox place - it's the same.

I'm calling the Vet but I'm wondering if anyone else had this problem and what they did about that. I don't have time to follow him around and "catch him in the act." Should I wait for the baby to take a nap and then put a pee pee diaper in the living room and when he goes towards it to sniff, rush him down to his litterbox? Tonight I did the thing that everyone says doesn't work -- the after-the-fact, put kitty's nose in his pee and then take him to his litterbox while yelling. What sucked was I had him on one hip, the baby on the other, and a blanket covered with cat pee pee, running down to the basement. It really sucked. I don't want to give up this cat but will if I have to. He likes the baby; always has and has never before had a problem and I have not changed any routines in the house. He's 3 1/2 years old.

Thanks.

VietMom

[lookingformarket]

Originally posted by baltassoc
Perhaps I am dense here, but what makes you think that?

His lack of a decent job made me think that he might be a lawyer (some of us make the argument that this is not a decent job).

[viet_mom]

Hi Legl. Thanks for the advice. Unfortunately, there are no doors on the bottom floor of the house, except for the basement door. I am, like you said, keeping all the blankets in a closet. In fact, this morning, Vietbabe and me hung around at 6 am in the chilly living room unable to cuddle in a blanket because the cat would piss on us. Lo and behold, he came in and decided to piss anyway directly on a fabric chair right in front of me.

What a fun morning. The positive is that I "caught him in the act" and did what you said - "No!" and took him to the litter box. The negative is that I had to chase him first which took me upstairs leaving Vietbabe downstairs which is not safe. Then I had to bring him to the basement, leaving Vietbabe upstairs with the basement door open which is even less safe. I called the Vet and have an appointment but I'm not going to be able to do too many "training seminars" with the cat. It's too risky for the baby.

You're right - it looks like he wasn't bothered before by anything but he is now. I don't know why -- he still sleeps with me at night and I play with him as before. I hope he is a quick study with behavior modification. He's already peed in the crib. That is absolutely nasty and unacceptable. I keep the nursery door closed now but he's peeing everywhere else. This really sucks. I love the cat but can't live like this!!

BTW - the "after the fact" punishment I gave him last night wasn't really as bad as I described. I brushed the blanket he had peed on onto his face, but is was a soft fleece and the blanket was dry, and I dropped him into his litterbox. I did yell, but not very loud. Otherwise I'd upset the Babe. He wasn't even perturbed. It wasn't like those scenes with the person digging the cat's face in his poo - I agree that stuff is cruel (and utterly useless). Will not do anything like that again. But I will give him up before my baby is lying around in cat pee all over the house.

Sorry for the two long messages, and for ranting. I'm obviously upset. And I'm realizing this is probably not going to get too much better and I'm going to be forced to give him up.

Viet_Mom

Originally posted by viet_mom
Cat pee issues

First, I second everything Leagle said - the cat is upset and can't tell you. I wouldn't use the term "jealous" because I don't think they are capable of jealousy or spitefulness in the way that people are that way.

There are several other things you can try. Getting the cat to associate the baby with a favorite toy or treats might help - whenever the baby is around, kitty gets a snack from the baby. The cat may put on some weight, but it might be worth it.

Another thing is that cats will not pee near their own food. Placing small paper plates around where you have put the baby/changed the baby might (and also where you have previously cleaned the cat pee - with enzyme cleaner) b e enough to make him go in his box. Of course you will have little plates of cat food all over for a couple weeks, but it can't hurt.

I don't know about fussing at the cat once he is caught "in the act" - if he wants more attention from you, this may be enforcing the behavior, just a thought.

Lastly, you may need to "retrain" the cat to use his box. Put the cat in a very small bathroom with the box, food, some toys, his bed - whatever he needs and keep him in there for a week or two, cleaning the box often. He likely will not pee out of the box because the space is too small and he won't want to be near where he pees. Then begin letting him out for an hour or so at a time, until he is out all the time. I would add that you should go in to visit alone but could also could bring the baby in, at which time he gets some extra yummy food - break out the fancy feast.

Adding another litter box or two might do the trick also - in fact, I would add another box no matter what I tried - sometimes they like having a choice.

Hope this helps.

-TL

[mommylawyer]

Originally posted by Oliver_Wendell_Ramone
Anybody have any thoughts/experiences re Montessori education? I think a lot of the philosophy makes sense, especially in the 3-6 year old range. I am also impressed by the teachers I've met; very into what they do, and with regard to the younger kids, way beyond a typical preschool teacher. On the other hand, I'm not sure my 3-year old needs to be in school every day (with mom currently in stay-at-home mode). And the whole thing can seem a bit new-agey and cult-like (e.g., "the cosmic child" and the constant and reverential references to Dr. Montesorri).

Any thoughts? I think we're leaning toward giving it a try.

Not sure if anyone has responded to this but I am a big fan of Montessori - and my little babywhateverhewantstobe is currently attending Montessori preschool. Why am I such a big fan? Well, I love the idea of allowing a child to grow at his/her own pace, rather than within a rigid guideline. When I was young and in public school - I was called a problem child ... because I would finish my work and then proceed to disturb the other children. It wasn't until my parents removed me from what was a very good public school (the principle didn't think I was a problem, just not being challenged) and placed me in a learning environment where there was sufficient academic challenge, that I was able to drop that moniker. Another member of my family who has some learning disabilities/developmental delays (adopted from mom who used drugs) did wonderfully in Montessori because although em had delays with reading, em's math skills were quite advanced.

I totally understand about the concern of spending on school with a stay at home mom - but the 2.5 a day is worth it. Another perk - you will love the self control em will learn form the other students and you will adore when em says, please don't touch my work!

ML

okay - So now that i have read further LOTS of people have responded - but I still stand by my statements. carry on!

[ltl/fb]

Originally posted by Oliver_Wendell_Ramone
Anybody have any thoughts/experiences re Montessori education? I think a lot of the philosophy makes sense, especially in the 3-6 year old range. I am also impressed by the teachers I've met; very into what they do, and with regard to the younger kids, way beyond a typical preschool teacher. On the other hand, I'm not sure my 3-year old needs to be in school every day (with mom currently in stay-at-home mode). And the whole thing can seem a bit new-agey and cult-like (e.g., "the cosmic child" and the constant and reverential references to Dr. Montesorri).

Any thoughts? I think we're leaning toward giving it a try.

I went from age 1.5 (two half-days a week) until I started either kindergarten or first grade. I loved it and I think it contributed greatly to forming the stellar person I am today.

Food for thought.

[Atticus Grinch]

Originally posted by ltl/fb
I went from age 1.5 (two half-days a week) until I started either kindergarten or first grade. I loved it and I think it contributed greatly to forming the stellar person I am today.

What if I want to form a stellar person who plays nicely with others?

{Ducking.}

[ltl/fb]

Originally posted by Atticus Grinch
What if I want to form a stellar person who plays nicely with others?

{Ducking.}

No need to duck, goose. That was my point. And if I had ever actually played with you, you would have a much better opinion of my playing skills.

Now I feel all icky having alluded to sex on the parents board.

[Atticus Grinch]

Originally posted by ltl/fb
No need to duck, goose. That was my point.

Oh, Jesus. I whiffed on the fucking Parents Board?

[baltassoc]

Originally posted by ltl/fb
Now I feel all icky having alluded to sex on the parents board.

With the exception of viet_mom, the fact that we are parents is direct evidence that each of us has had sex at least once. I don't think there is nearly so reliable an indicator for other boards.