A disgusting vat of filth that no self-respecting intelligent person would wade into.

[Penske_Account]

Originally posted by Spanky
OK. I think it has a pretty good chance of succeeding. The way I look at it (and the reason I am lobbying for it) is that it can't be all bad to cover everyone. Once hospitals know that everyone has insurance then you won't have all those emergency room tragedies.

I hope I am not helping to bring the NHS to CA, but on the other hand, the current system just isn't working. We need to try something. People getting truned down at emergency rooms is unaccpetible, even if the fix means means becoming more ike those systems I hate. I guess that is a price I am willing to pay because anything is better than children getting denied medical care, especially in emergencies. Whatever the cost, that has to stop.

I am not sure what California is like, but in WA a state hospital, at least, cannot turn someone (child or adult) away for lack of insurance.

[Not Bob]

Originally posted by Penske_Account
NY had a republican mayor but city council (or wahever its called) was still Dem controlled and the city was still beholden to the liberal teachers unions. Further, I would posit, the police and criminal justice system has so much long standing embedded racism that the system needs to be overhauled (and just the election of the R mayor doesn't do that). And in advance, Bloomberg is a RiNO of the worst kind.

City council? In New York? Please. While other cities talk about a strong mayor/weak mayor system, New York's mayor is a dictator. Who controls city council is meaningless (as Rudy proved repeatedly). And Rudy was enthusiastically backed by cops and the police unions, at least at the beginning. Read Edward Conlon's Blue Blood for (among other things) a fascinating discussion of the history of the NYPD.

Originally posted by Penske_Account
Chicago and cook county are D, period. The Daleys not only control and oppress that populace but by themselves and their minions infect that national political process. Ceaucescu style justice would be the only justice for them. As for the cops in Chicago, I am not sure whom they vote for, although imo most are probably not literate enough to read the ballot and probably are instructed to vote by proxy coming out of the Cook County Demo machine HQ.

I defer to the wisdom of others on Chicago, but I would note that the citizens of The Hog Butcher To The World tried voting for a reform mayor after Daley the Elder passed, and seem to have chosen to revert back to the machine.

And, please. Big city cops turned out in droves for Nixon, Reagan, Bush The Elder (at least in 1988), and W. One of the most effective symbols of the ineptidude of Michael "Mike Only In The Primaries" Dukakis was the picture of GHWB surrounded by uniformed Boston cops after the police union endorsed him. (Willie Horton and the Boston Harbor ad kept this from being number one, but still.)

Originally posted by Penske_Account
As for the R machines, name major US cities with R machines or even R control over both the executive and legislative branches. Nassau county/LI is not a city and no one outside of Nassau county gives a rat arse about it, further it is or was as much mob controlled (and I am not sure they are partisan) as it is politically controlled, and that includes D'Amato, a shitstain, regardless of party.

How many million people live in Nassau County? And Pothole Al controlled the GOP in NY until Pataki was elected, so I wouldn't dismiss him, either.

As for your specific question about the GOP-controlled major cities, I don't know. I would guess that Miami is, but it would just be a guess. I suspect that there aren't too many. But the abuses that can come from machine politics can be just as bad in smaller towns and rural areas -- the Long machine in Lousiana didn't control any major cities (a rival controlled New Orleans, IIRC).

[Sidd Finch]

Originally posted by Adder
i agree with your analysis but am less hopeful that bush will explain "his" thinking in a meaningful way. instead, we will learn that we have to do what he says to "protect freedom," "fight the terrorists" and "support Iraqi democracy."

And stay until the job is done. But no staying the course.

[Penske_Account]

Originally posted by Sidd Finch
What's really funny is that this all started with me pointing out the R's "southern strategy" -- which their own chairman admits the Rs engaged in, but which some people want to pretend never happened.

So, I point out that Rs peeled off racist southern whites* with a foul and racist strategy of painting the Dems as evil for supporting things like the Civil Rights Act.

Some Rs respond by talking about Eisenhower, whose presidency -- and, to an unfortunately great extent, whose entire type -- predate the period of the Civil Rights Act and the southern strategy.

Others respond by talking about how stupid black people are, because they fall for the Dem lies and tricks that are so evident to anyone else (or at least to anyone who is white and Republican).

And when you call them on it, Ty, it's because you are a bad person.



*(Note: Any minimally intelligent person would recognize that referring to "racist southern whites," some of which certainly exist, does not equal "all southern whites are racist")

I responded by pointing out a recent article in the liberal rag NYTimes exposing the myth of the southern strategy. Can you cite your substantive refutation of the study and its conclusions cited in that article?

[Sidd Finch]

Originally posted by Not Bob
City council? In New York? Please. While other cities talk about a strong mayor/weak mayor system, New York's mayor is a dictator. Who controls city council is meaningless (as Rudy proved repeatedly). And Rudy was enthusiastically backed by cops and the police unions, at least at the beginning. Read Edward Conlon's Blue Blood for (among other things) a fascinating discussion of the history of the NYPD.

But that's your problem, NB. You insist on blaming the police for police brutality, when obviously it's the liberal teachers' unions who are at fault.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally posted by Penske_Account
I responded by pointing out a recent article in the liberal rag NYTimes exposing the myth of the southern strategy.

Your response would have been more convincing if you'd showed some sign of reading any of Risen's article beyond the title that some editor stuck on it.

eta: Change "would" to "might."

[Sidd Finch]

Originally posted by Penske_Account
I responded by pointing out a recent article in the liberal rag NYTimes exposing the myth of the southern strategy. Can you cite your substantive refutation of the study and its conclusions cited in that article?

No, you responded by quoting a column by a professor who has taken a contrarian position that the NYTimes -- demonstrating an even-handedness that no Fox publication could match -- was kind enough to publish.

Why would I need a "substantive refutation," when your own party's chairman already supports my view?

[Not Bob]

Originally posted by Penske_Account
Freedom from intrusive and oppressive Federal taxation and business regulation? Reagan's philosophy resonates with me and like him I believe state and local government are the best places to address the needs of the people and community interest, without undermining or depriving the consitutional freedoms granted to all. Why do you hate local government (other than racist oppressive Democrat variety, which is hatable per se)?

Oh? His philosophy in opposing the Civil Rights Act of 1964 and the Voting Rights Act of 1965 resonates with you? Or his use of the code words of Bull Connor and George Wallace in his speech 15 years later?

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally posted by Sidd Finch

Others respond by talking about how stupid black people are, because they fall for the Dem lies and tricks that are so evident to anyone else (or at least to anyone who is white and Republican).

I don't know where you get this from. Many city voters are driven by black leaders in the cities. In Detroit, I believe ministers go a long way in getting out people to vote, and making sure they vote Democratic. Obviously they do a very good job.

Perhaps the ministers get some political clout from the Party in payback for the work. Perhaps they don't but do the work simply because they honestly believe the Dem party is the best solution for their people.

Whatever their motivation I think they should be expecting something more for the votes. As GGG said the massive voting percentages have existed for at least 40 years. Here the schools in the city are basically complete failures, much worse then they were 40 years ago. Entire generations of kids are simply not educated. I don't think it is racist for me to say this- I think it is racist for you to accept it, or act like it is inevitable.

Or do you think we are doing a good job educating kids in the cities?

[Penske_Account]

Originally posted by Not Bob
City council? In New York? Please. While other cities talk about a strong mayor/weak mayor system, New York's mayor is a dictator. Who controls city council is meaningless (as Rudy proved repeatedly). And Rudy was enthusiastically backed by cops and the police unions, at least at the beginning. Read Edward Conlon's Blue Blood for (among other things) a fascinating discussion of the history of the NYPD.

Dems still infect the process in NYC, especially with a guy like Rudy is a just a step up from a RiNO, but more importantly, regardless of whom the police suppourted, it is a still a corrupt and racist organisation. That Rudy didn't choose to overhaul to rid it of those concepts is telling. And the schoolsl, beholden to the socialist teachers union, are still a disaster, which effectively continues the oppression of the poor and/or minourity populaces of the city.

Originally posted by Not Bob




I defer to the wisdom of others on Chicago, but I would note that the citizens of The Hog Butcher To The World tried voting for a reform mayor after Daley the Elder passed, and seem to have chosen to revert back to the machine.

What does this mean, because the sheeple are duped into "choosing" corrupt oppressors that ratifies the corruption?

Originally posted by Not Bob


And, please. Big city cops turned out in droves for Nixon, Reagan, Bush The Elder (at least in 1988), and W. One of the most effective symbols of the ineptidude of Michael "Mike Only In The Primaries" Dukakis was the picture of GHWB surrounded by uniformed Boston cops after the police union endorsed him. (Willie Horton and the Boston Harbor ad kept this from being number one, but still.)

What difference does it make what presidential candidate cops vote for? Presidents don't directly and on a day to day basis affect policy regaridng policing and law enforcement in US cities. I don't care if every major US police pledged to vote R for president forever, it doesnt excuse the corruption and racisim and abuse of power and those little things are condoned and exploited by the Ds controlling those cities.

Originally posted by Not Bob




How many million people live in Nassau County? And Pothole Al controlled the GOP in NY until Pataki was elected, so I wouldn't dismiss him, either.

Millions of people live in rural america too, neither is signficant as cultutal or political influences in the way that cities and political entities from cities are.

As for d'Amato, what is your point? I would say he is corrupt and I would also say that he is mob influenced. I didnt' know him personally, but aside from what general media influenced observation, I used to socialise with one of his chief aides. d'Amato was corrupt and mob influenced. You like him why?

[Penske_Account]

Originally posted by Sidd Finch
No, you responded by quoting a column by a professor who has taken a contrarian position that the NYTimes -- demonstrating an even-handedness that no Fox publication could match -- was kind enough to publish.

Why would I need a "substantive refutation," when your own party's chairman already supports my view?

You tell me Rs lie, why would I believe Mehlman?

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally posted by Sidd Finch
Others respond by talking about how stupid black people are, because they fall for the Dem lies and tricks that are so evident to anyone else (or at least to anyone who is white and Republican).

Originally posted by Hank Chinaski
I don't know where you get this from.

This post?

Originally posted by Hank Chinaski
outside of racial fear mongoring how do you explain the way the Dems get something like 90% of the vote in black inner cities?

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally posted by Tyrone Slothrop
nothing= average Ty post content

the "stupid" part?

[Penske_Account]

Originally posted by Not Bob
Oh? His philosophy in opposing the Civil Rights Act of 1964 and the Voting Rights Act of 1965 resonates with you? Or his use of the code words of Bull Connor and George Wallace in his speech 15 years later?

I don't know the code of which you speak (Frankly, I am no fan of the south or the people you cite, and would happy to them secede, but I suppose, do to our civil war victory we are stuck supporting them). Notwithstanding that, Reagan's message of supporting individual's rights and freedom from government intrusion resonate with me. also, the lower taxes thing. And he defeated the Soviets.

Unfortunately the urban centers of America, which are controlled by Democrats, refuse to reform their racist and oppressive corruption, which leads the sheeple and MSM to continue to badmouth the concept of local government, of the people, by the people.

[Penske_Account]

Originally posted by Hank Chinaski


Or do you think we are doing a good job educating kids in the cities?

I'm betting he doesn't know first hand, i.e. if he has children, I am bettng they are in private school, much like his fellow limo-libs Clinton....Gore.... etal.