Politics: Onward from New Hampshire - Page 207

sgtclub · 03-10-2004, 11:37 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Secret_Agent_Man
You may eventually learn that following in lockstep with your parents' ideology does not make one a rational, discerning adult.

S_A_M

{ETA: Dammit Sppokyfish!}

Pot/kettle. Anyway, my parents are exactly how you'd picture Ty's being. I grew up as Alex Keaton.

sgtclub · 03-10-2004, 11:39 AM

http://www.newsday.com/news/nationwo...orld-headlines

Maybe the first amendment is not entirely dead yet. Girls Gone Wild is not porn!

andViolins · 03-10-2004, 12:06 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by bilmore
I don't know any of the religious-incented (is that a word now?) home schoolers - they're all people dissatisfied with what the public schools have to offer, the lack of discipline, and the constantly changing "standards". Parents of one set of kids are still upset that Kucinich did so poorly.

Looking to the ideological basis of the NEA, the general political cant of most every teacher in (at least) our district, and all of the huge inefficiencies that are now built in to our education system, I think it's laughable to call people who want to get out of that system the ideologues. I guess it's only "lockstep" when it's not the system YOU would choose. When it's your own system, apparently it's a "consensus."

In the great State of Ohio, however, the wingnuts have been successful in the wedge theory. Homeschooling doesn't look so bad to me right now.

Panel OKs disputed 10th-grade biology plan

Columbus- A sharply divided state school board Tuesday narrowly approved a controversial 10th-grade biology lesson that scientists fear will allow creationism into high school science classrooms.

The board voted 10-7 to include the 22-page lesson, "Critical Analysis of Evolution," as part of the state's 547 pages of model lesson plans for science. The board then approved the entire package of science lessons by a 13-5 vote.

The state is now bracing itself for an almost certain legal challenge. The American Civil Liberties Union of Ohio said it is monitoring the fate of the disputed lesson plan and whether it will sue. The U.S. Supreme Court in 1987 struck down creation science in schools on the grounds that it was a religion rather than a science.

"This is religiously bent and it's sending a message to local boards of education that they can circumvent the U.S. Supreme Court," said board member Martha Wise of Avon.

http://www.cleveland.com/debate/inde...4742102330.xml

aV

Did you just call me Coltrane? · 03-10-2004, 12:18 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by bilmore
I don't know any of the religious-incented (is that a word now?) home schoolers - they're all people dissatisfied with what the public schools have to offer, the lack of discipline, and the constantly changing "standards". Parents of one set of kids are still upset that Kucinich did so poorly.

Looking to the ideological basis of the NEA, the general political cant of most every teacher in (at least) our district, and all of the huge inefficiencies that are now built in to our education system, I think it's laughable to call people who want to get out of that system the ideologues. I guess it's only "lockstep" when it's not the system YOU would choose. When it's your own system, apparently it's a "consensus."

I taught a (after school?) soccer class for a group of home-schooled kids. Talk about a group of socially screwed-up spazzes. Wow. I was shocked. My class was, from what I gathered, the only true social release these kids got. And they took advantage of it by going completely insane. Having taught years of tennis to younger children, I was used to the actions of your average 5-10 year old. These kids were freaks. They just weren't used to being around other kids. I felt really sorry for them.

ltl/fb · 03-10-2004, 01:00 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by sgtclub
Pot/kettle. Anyway, my parents are exactly how you'd picture Ty's being. I grew up as Alex Keaton.

Alex Keaton went to public schools.

And, bilmore, yeah -- when it goes with what you think, it's family "consensus." When it doesn't, it's NEA "lockstep."

Secret_Agent_Man · 03-10-2004, 01:07 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by sgtclub
Pot/kettle. Anyway, my parents are exactly how you'd picture Ty's being. I grew up as Alex Keaton.

(a) I never smoked pot.

(b) That somehow seems right.

S_A_M

bilmore · 03-10-2004, 01:10 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by ltl/fb
And, bilmore, yeah -- when it goes with what you think, it's family "consensus." When it doesn't, it's NEA "lockstep."

I like the way you commented similarly on Sam's choice of "lockstep".

Sort of makes my point for me.

Tyrone Slothrop · 03-10-2004, 01:12 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by sgtclub
Anyway, my parents are exactly how you'd picture Ty's being.

No wonder I love you like a brother.

sebastian_dangerfield · 03-10-2004, 01:14 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Secret_Agent_Man
(a) I never smoked pot.

(b) That somehow seems right.

S_A_M

(a) You're a liar.

(b) Its fun. Lighten up.

sebastian_dangerfield · 03-10-2004, 01:21 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Did you just call me Coltrane?
I taught a (after school?) soccer class for a group of home-schooled kids. Talk about a group of socially screwed-up spazzes. Wow. I was shocked. My class was, from what I gathered, the only true social release these kids got. And they took advantage of it by going completely insane. Having taught years of tennis to younger children, I was used to the actions of your average 5-10 year old. These kids were freaks. They just weren't used to being around other kids. I felt really sorry for them.

I don't care much about the specifics of this debate, but if you home school your kid, you will get one wierd motherfucking kid.

I used to deliver pizzas to dorms in college and recall seeing halls of freaks who played computer games and such all day. These people were wierd antisocial folks, and they were all from regular high schools. If people can be that wierd coming from regular high schools, I shudder to think how wierd home schooled people might be.

Secret_Agent_Man · 03-10-2004, 01:26 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by bilmore
I don't know any of the religious-incented (is that a word now?) home schoolers -

I don't know many, but this is the only type I know. Again, I think Minnesota may be outside the norm.

Quote:

Originally posted by bilmore
they're all people dissatisfied with what the public schools have to offer, the lack of discipline, and the constantly changing "standards". Parents of one set of kids are still upset that Kucinich did so poorly.

I know that there is no way to get figures, but I wonder what proportion of home-schooling parents are (a) religious-incented vs. (b) secular-incented?

The first category were certainly the footsoldiers in developing the movement and making it legal. I understand that no state allowed home-schooling as recently as 1980.

In any event -- given that it is a reasonably well-documented fact both that home-schooled kids tend to vote in much higher percentages at ages 18-24 than non-home schooled (admirable), and that they trend GOP by about 70% (unfortunate) -- do you really think that the children of Kucinich supporters are a significant percentage of the total?

Quote:

Originally posted by bilmore
Looking to the ideological basis of the NEA, the general political cant of most every teacher in (at least) our district, and all of the huge inefficiencies that are now built in to our education system, I think it's laughable to call people who want to get out of that system the ideologues. I guess it's only "lockstep" when it's not the system YOU would choose. When it's your own system, apparently it's a "consensus."

I honestly have no idea what you're talking about or what in my message you think that you are responding to. (But I do assume that the digs were directed at me rather than Hank.)

bilmore · 03-10-2004, 01:27 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by sebastian_dangerfield
I don't care much about the specifics of this debate, but if you home school your kid, you will get one wierd motherfucking kid.

I used to deliver pizzas to dorms in college and recall seeing halls of freaks who played computer games and such all day. These people were wierd antisocial folks, and they were all from regular high schools. If people can be that wierd coming from regular high schools, I shudder to think how wierd home schooled people might be.

Nope. You're stuck on the old model of home schooling.

New model involves joining co-ops, networks, etc., and spending tons of time with groups of people. It's not the old picture of the mom in curlers telling little Ezekiel "today for math we're going to count the number of times gawd smites the perverts in the Old Testament."

sgtclub · 03-10-2004, 01:28 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by ltl/fb
Alex Keaton went to public schools.

So did I.

sgtclub · 03-10-2004, 01:30 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Secret_Agent_Man
(a) I never smoked pot.

(b) That somehow seems right.

S_A_M

Wrong again my friend, wrong again. Somehow, no matter how hard I try, you people continue to confuse me with the Christian Right. I proudly represent the Libertarian wing of the GOP. Drugs for all in mass quantities I say.

bilmore · 03-10-2004, 01:30 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Secret_Agent_Man
I honestly have no idea what you're talking about or what in my message you think that you are responding to. (But I do assume that the digs were directed at me rather than Hank.)

I was responding to my perception that both you and 'da fish think that homeschooled kids are lockstep copies of Mom and Pop BibleBelt. My experience tells me that homeschooling results in some extraordinarily freethinking kids.