Waiting for Fitzgerald

[Spanky]

My instincts tell me that it would be better if the Constitution fails. If the Constitution passes that will just reconfirm the suspicion many Sunnis have that in any future government they will not have a voice. However, if their no vote wins it will show that they do have a voice. When they didn't turn out to vote things did not go their way but when they did they got what they wanted. It will show that Democracy works.

In the next constitutional round the Sunnis will have fair representation and then the next round will be more legitimate.

If the constitution passes that will just give rise to the insurgents arguments that the Sunnis are going to get screwed in any future government.

In addition, every time there is an electio you have better turnout and democracy looks better and better. The more votes you have the more democracy is legitimized.

[sebastian_dangerfield]

Originally posted by Shape Shifter
So disagreement shouldn't be voiced until 20 years after the fact?

I'll agree to this if penske will, also.

Lester Hayes should have been ejected for using the Stickum. How can we force Davis to cough up that trophy?

Maybe I'll sue.

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally posted by sebastian_dangerfield
Lester Hayes should have been ejected for using the Stickum.

Shape Shifter's mom should have gotten him braces.

[sebastian_dangerfield]

Originally posted by Hank Chinaski
Shape Shifter's mom should have gotten him braces.

She's an orthodontist? Photo? I had no idea Lester had terrible teeth.

[sebastian_dangerfield]

Originally posted by Spanky
My instincts tell me that it would be better if the Constitution fails. If the Constitution passes that will just reconfirm the suspicion many Sunnis have that in any future government they will not have a voice. However, if their no vote wins it will show that they do have a voice. When they didn't turn out to vote things did not go their way but when they did they got what they wanted. It will show that Democracy works.

In the next constitutional round the Sunnis will have fair representation and then the next round will be more legitimate.

If the constitution passes that will just give rise to the insurgents arguments that the Sunnis are going to get screwed in any future government.

In addition, every time there is an electio you have better turnout and democracy looks better and better. The more votes you have the more democracy is legitimized.

Good analysis, but this is like trying to guess whether a grease fire or an electrical fire will kill more occupants.

[Spanky]

Here is a letter that I received that I agree with.


REASONS TO VOTE NO ON PROPOSITION 73 – Parental Notification and Waiting Period Before Termination of Minor’s Pregnancy.


Proposition 73 on the California November 8th Ballot will require parental consent for young women to get an abortion. The requirement of parental consent for this very serious decision sounds right. But through the work that I have been doing for the last 15 years with Teen Success, a program for teenage mothers coordinated by Planned Parenthood Mar Monte, I’ve seen the devastating, dysfunctional, and abusive situations that too many pregnant teenage girls are facing.

Some of these girls do not have a parent to ask for help or permission. They may live with a sister or in foster care. The option of going to a judge in our overcrowded courts is scary enough for an adult; just think of what it would be like for a scared teenager who may not speak English or understand our judicial system. This process will take longer (if it happens at all) than the first trimester in many cases. And, there are teenagers who do not realize they are pregnant for several months. The girl may have been impregnated by an uncle, a step-father or friend of the family. In my experience, if theses young girls were to go to a parent they are risking further abuse. Ministers, doctors and clinicians can testify to this.

These young women and their parents, if they have one or two, are unlikely to vote at any election, much less on this important Proposition. I believe it is my job to tell their story and defend their privacy, medical access, and their safety.

Proposition 73 will also endanger physicians like our daughter, an OB-GYN, who will no longer have patient/physician privacy rights. She must report to a parent immediately upon determining that a teenage patient is pregnant. She must also report to the California State Department of Health Services if an abortion is performed, with or without parental permission. This exposure to potential investigation by anti-abortion fanatics is serious for all physicians, but especially for practicing Obstetrician/Gynecologists.

The people who do vote are those who, in most cases, have good relationships with their daughters. They simply do not understand the problems that exist for the young girls such as those that I see at Teen Success. I had hoped we were past coat hangers and back alleys. My concern is that Proposition 73 will leave many young girls from difficult family situations without good medical options. I fear for their safety.

PLEASE read the text of Proposition 73. It would put into our California Constitution definitions and requirements never before accepted by voters.

PLEASE pass this message on to your friends and VOTE NO on Proposition 73 – either on your Absentee Ballot or at your Polling Place on Tuesday, November 8th.

Sincerely,

Becky Morgan

[Penske_Account]

Originally posted by Spanky
Here is a letter that I received that I agree with.


REASONS TO VOTE NO ON PROPOSITION 73 – Parental Notification and Waiting Period Before Termination of Minor’s Pregnancy.


Proposition 73 on the California November 8th Ballot will require parental consent for young women to get an abortion. The requirement of parental consent for this very serious decision sounds right. But through the work that I have been doing for the last 15 years with Teen Success, a program for teenage mothers coordinated by Planned Parenthood Mar Monte, I’ve seen the devastating, dysfunctional, and abusive situations that too many pregnant teenage girls are facing.

Some of these girls do not have a parent to ask for help or permission. They may live with a sister or in foster care. The option of going to a judge in our overcrowded courts is scary enough for an adult; just think of what it would be like for a scared teenager who may not speak English or understand our judicial system. This process will take longer (if it happens at all) than the first trimester in many cases. And, there are teenagers who do not realize they are pregnant for several months. The girl may have been impregnated by an uncle, a step-father or friend of the family. In my experience, if theses young girls were to go to a parent they are risking further abuse. Ministers, doctors and clinicians can testify to this.

These young women and their parents, if they have one or two, are unlikely to vote at any election, much less on this important Proposition. I believe it is my job to tell their story and defend their privacy, medical access, and their safety.

Proposition 73 will also endanger physicians like our daughter, an OB-GYN, who will no longer have patient/physician privacy rights. She must report to a parent immediately upon determining that a teenage patient is pregnant. She must also report to the California State Department of Health Services if an abortion is performed, with or without parental permission. This exposure to potential investigation by anti-abortion fanatics is serious for all physicians, but especially for practicing Obstetrician/Gynecologists.

The people who do vote are those who, in most cases, have good relationships with their daughters. They simply do not understand the problems that exist for the young girls such as those that I see at Teen Success. I had hoped we were past coat hangers and back alleys. My concern is that Proposition 73 will leave many young girls from difficult family situations without good medical options. I fear for their safety.

PLEASE read the text of Proposition 73. It would put into our California Constitution definitions and requirements never before accepted by voters.

PLEASE pass this message on to your friends and VOTE NO on Proposition 73 – either on your Absentee Ballot or at your Polling Place on Tuesday, November 8th.

Sincerely,

Becky Morgan

I dissent, but I don't have the energy to be more specific. Perhaps one day in another land we will dine, al fresco, and can discuss.....

[Secret_Agent_Man]

Originally posted by Penske_Account
Perhaps one day in another land we will dine, al fresco, and can discuss.....

Or you could keep your clothes On while you eat . . .

S_A_M

[Bad_Rich_Chic]

Originally posted by sebastian_dangerfield

If they invented/discovered alcohol only 200 years ago, it would be illegal as well.

Not even close. Pot (well, hash) was being smoked in Europe centuries before the discovery of the new world (and tobacco). Way longer than that in the rest of the world. For centuries ship captains complained that the hardest part of their job was to keep the sailors from smoking the rigging.

In fact, you have inspired me to turn on some 13th & 14th century tunes about smoking the doobie I just happened to have in my office.

I will let the following stand in as my versification of the day:

Puisque je suis fumeux, plains de fumee,
Fumer m'estuet, car, se je ne fumoye,
Ceulx qui dient que j'ay teste fumee
Par fumee, je les desmentiroye.
Et n pourquant ja mais ne fumeroye;
De fumee qui fust contre rayson.
Se je fume, c'est ma compleccion
quolerique qu'ainsi me fayt fumer.
Je fumeray sanz personne graver,
C'est bien fumme: if n'i a point d'outrayge
Quant on fume sans fayre autruy damage.

BR(last two lines: "It's well smoked: there's no outrage done when one smokes without harming another.")C

[Sexual Harassment Panda]

Originally posted by sgtclub
No, but judgement as to success or failure, or the wisdom of the war, should not be.

Even if you support the war? Cuz if that's true, we'll see about 30% fewer posts from Spanky, and 50% fewer from Penske. Can the board survive?

Disagree all you want. Odds are you will feel like an idiot 5 to 10 years from now.

Odds are you have no basis for quoting any odds on this. You may believe this, but I'd really like to see an objective probability analysis to support it.

But Hank tells me you look like an idiot now, so you have nothing to lose.

Nice. The Politics of Division and Baseless Gratuitous Personal Insults(TM) (aka PoDaBGPI). Penske and Turdblossom have taught you well.

[Sexual Harassment Panda]

Originally posted by Bad_Rich_Chic
Not even close. Pot (well, hash) was being smoked in Europe centuries before the discovery of the new world (and tobacco). Way longer than that in the rest of the world. For centuries ship captains complained that the hardest part of their job was to keep the sailors from smoking the rigging.

In fact, you have inspired me to turn on some 13th & 14th century tunes about smoking the doobie I just happened to have in my office.

I will let the following stand in as my versification of the day:

Puisque je suis fumeux, plains de fumee,
Fumer m'estuet, car, se je ne fumoye,
Ceulx qui dient que j'ay teste fumee
Par fumee, je les desmentiroye.
Et n pourquant ja mais ne fumeroye;
De fumee qui fust contre rayson.
Se je fume, c'est ma compleccion
quolerique qu'ainsi me fayt fumer.
Je fumeray sanz personne graver,
C'est bien fumme: if n'i a point d'outrayge
Quant on fume sans fayre autruy damage.

BR(last two lines: "It's well smoked: there's no outrage done when one smokes without harming another.")C

Way, way way more sophisticated than "I Smoke Two Joints in de Morning". Bravo!

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally posted by Sexual Harassment Panda
Nice. The Politics of Division and Baseless Gratuitous Personal Insults(TM) (aka PoDaBGPI). Penske and Turdblossom have taught you well.

1 who is turdblossam?

2 stealing Penske's raps give them some legitimacy.

[bilmore]

Or, if it doesn't work:

http://www.barking-moonbat.com/image...at_carrier.jpg

(Work safe.)

[Gattigap]

Originally posted by bilmore


Or, if it doesn't work:

http://www.barking-moonbat.com/image...at_carrier.jpg

(Work safe.)

"This Web Site Is Currently Unavailable. Please Try Again Later."

I'm slow, and it's Monday, but I didn't really get this one the previous time it was posted, either.

[Spanky]

Originally posted by Penske_Account
I dissent, but I don't have the energy to be more specific. Perhaps one day in another land we will dine, al fresco, and can discuss.....

Why not? Might spice up the board. It seems the liberals have given up. I picked a topic I agree with the liberals on so I can put some life back into this thing.

The main reason I am against abortion is because I think women will get them no matter what. If abortion is illegal they will get them illegally. In countries where abortion is illegal, like the Phillipines and Mexico, the highest cause of death on amont teenage girls is botched abortions.

From my perspective one of the biggest causes of abortion is social stigma. Women who don't want their families to know that they got pregnant out of wedlock. There is a massive disconnect in this country. The overwhelming majority of teens are having sex yet every parent thinks their kid is the exception. Kids know this.

The women that is under the biggest threat of getting a back alley abortion is the girl that doesn't want anyone to know that she is having an abortion. Especially her family.

From a practical perspective teenage girls need to be able to get abortions without their parents being notified. I think many of these girls exaggerate in their minds how much their parents will freak out. However, that is not the issue. Their assumptions are what counts because that is what leads them to the decision to have an abortion.

For many teenage girls, from a practical perspective, requiring parental notification has pretty much the same effect as making it illegal.

This law takes the anonymity away from the girls that need it the most.