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Old 01-15-2007, 03:13 PM   #3256
Greedy,Greedy,Greedy
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Quote:
Originally posted by Spanky
That should be the bottom line for everyone involved. He is the new commander and he says he needs twenty thousand. Why second guess him?
I have to thank Penske for highlighting this one. I got a great chuckle out of it.
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Old 01-15-2007, 03:16 PM   #3257
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Quote:
Originally posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy
I have to thank Penske for highlighting this one. I got a great chuckle out of it.
You're welcome. Its moments such as these that hi-lite why I am the one whom they call the fair and balanced mod.
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Old 01-15-2007, 03:24 PM   #3258
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Punk'ing the Military

Quote:
Originally posted by Penske_Account
2. The punks on the left have no respect for the military or its leaders.
If Bush respected the military he wouldn't have invaded with less than several hundred thousand troops. Why would he need less than the UK in Ireland? Oh, I know, a genius like Rumsfeld is worth 300,000 troops.
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Old 01-15-2007, 04:02 PM   #3259
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Punk'ing the Military

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Originally posted by Tables R Us
If Bush respected the military he wouldn't have invaded with less than several hundred thousand troops. Why would he need less than the UK in Ireland? Oh, I know, a genius like Rumsfeld is worth 300,000 troops.
He's a super genius.

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Old 01-15-2007, 04:04 PM   #3260
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Godspeed and Thanks, Rummy!

DoD ACCOMPLISHMENTS SINCE 2001


the last six years, the Department has made great strides in modernizing its forces to address the threats of the 21st century.

I. WAR ON TERROR

Overall: A multinational coalition has liberated 50 million people in Afghanistan and Iraq, with formation of representative governments and security forces.
Liberated 31 million Afghans from Taliban control and destroyed Al-Qaeda sanctuary – conquering elements that successfully fought off the Soviet Union for over nine years – and stood up a Loya Jurga governing council eight months after operations began.
Liberated 26.7 million Iraqis from a brutal dictatorship and turned over sovereignty of the country to an Iraqi government in 16 months.
Recruited, Organized, Trained, and Equipped Iraqi and Afghan Security Forces:
129,000 for Iraqi Ministry of Defense
165,100 for Iraqi Ministry of Interior
33,000 for Afghan National Army
37,000 for Afghan National Police
Conducted safe and secure elections in Afghanistan and Iraq:
Elections in Iraq
January 30, 2005 election—55 percent turnout
October 15, 2005 constitutional ratification—63 percent turnout
December 15, 2005 election—78 percent turnout
March 16, 2006—permanent Iraqi Government seated
Elections in Afghanistan
October 9, 2005 election—roughly 80 percent of voters turnout
December 7, 2005—Afghan President inaugurated
Senior leadership of America’s enemies have been captured, killed, or made to run:
Khalid Sheik Mohammad, Al-Qaeda’s Director of Operations—captured March 1, 2003
Saddam Hussein’s sons—killed July 22, 2003
Saddam Hussein—captured December 13, 2003
Ali Hassan Mahmud al-Tikriti, AKA Chemical Ali—captured August 21, 2003
Al Zarqawi, leader of Al Qaeda in Iraq—killed June 7, 2006
Forty-five of fifty-five of Saddam’s top regime—the deck of cards—have been killed or captured
Conducted hundreds of intelligence and tactical operations—many with partner nations—throughout the world against terrorist organizations directly or loosely affiliated with Al-Qaeda.
NATO has expanded its reach in Afghanistan—the first time the Alliance has acted outside of its traditional boundaries.
Suspected terrorists held at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, have revealed information that has helped thwart attacks against our troops, the American people and our allies.
II. SHAPING THE JOINT FORCE FOR ASYMETRIC WARFARE

Army
Most significant reorganization in a generation, from a division-based structure to 70 modular brigade combat teams.
$21 billion invested in the National Guard for equipment and modernization so that, for the first time, the Guard will be fully manned, equipped, and funded.
Shift of thousands of troops from Institutional Army “tail” to Operational Army “tooth.”
Development of Future Combat System.
Ended Cold War legacy programs, such as the Crusader artillery and Comanche helicopter programs.
Navy
New Fleet Response Plan doubles the number of Carrier Strike Groups that can be deployed at short notice.
“Sea swaps” of crews allow longer deployment of ships.
Started the development of the new Littoral Combat Ship designed to satisfy the urgent requirement for shallow draft vessels to operate in coastal waters.
Conversion of Trident ballistic missile submarines to vessels that can carry Special Forces and launch UAVs.
Marines
Created expeditionary strike groups with U.S. Marine Corps with many capabilities optimized for GWOT operations.
Created Marine Corps Special Operations Command.
Air Force
Created Air Expeditionary Groups for better efficiency and flexibility.
Increased Unmanned Aerial Vehicles from 130 to over 3,000.
More than 100 satellites and nearly 100 aircraft are controlled and flown daily by 26,000 Airmen to provide valuable intelligence, warning, and precision navigation to forces around the globe.
Provide the joint / coalition force with global networking and space-based communications, navigation, weather, and surveillance information.
Irregular Warfare
107 percent budget increase in Special Forces.
New technologies and tactics to counter IED threat.
Foreign-language skills and area expertise increased throughout the force.
Increased focus on stability operations.
New counterinsurgency manual and doctrine issued.
Missile Defense—Limited operating capability implemented:
Emplaced 11 ground-based interceptors in Alaska and 2 in California to address long-range threats (ICBMs with range of approximately 10,000 miles).
The first operational patrol of Aegis BMD long-range surveillance and tracking equipped destroyers was in the Sea of Japan in September 2004; today, 10 Aegis BMD Destroyers are Long-Range Surveillance and Track capable; one Aegis BMD Destroyer is Engagement capable and two Aegis BMD Cruisers are Engagement capable.
Since 2001, 22 hit-to-kill intercept tests have destroyed their targets.
On September 1, 2006, the last test of the ground-based interceptors exceeded its objectives by destroying a mock ballistic missile in space.
The BMDS transitioned from developmental to operational status.
Nuclear Triad: New structure of offensive weapons, defensive weapons bound together by an enhanced command and control, and intelligence systems.
Humanitarian Operations & Disaster Relief
Hurricane Katrina/Rita
More than 2 million pounds of food, 34,000 MREs, and almost 180,000 bottles of water were distributed.
Military forces peaked at nearly 72,000--50,000 National Guardsmen and 22,000 active-duty personnel—a total deployment for Katrina more than twice the size of the military response to Hurricane Andrew.
DoD military personnel evacuated more than 80,000 Gulf Coast residents and rescued another 15,000.
Military forces provided significant medical assistance, including 10,000 medical evacuations by ground and air and the delivery of medical treatment to more than 5,000 sick and injured people.
Asian Tsunami
More than 24 million pounds of supplies delivered since the disaster.
USNS Mercy cared for more than 60,000 patients and performed more than 1,000 surgeries.
Pakistan Earthquake: Delivered more than 7,000 tons of medical supplies, food, shelter material, blankets, and rescue equipment. Delivered more than 4.5 million kilograms of relief supplies to the disaster area and transported more than 15,000 people, including over 4,300 people needing medical attention.
Evacuated nearly 15,000 American citizens from Lebanon.
III. MANAGEMENT & ORGANIZATION

Transformed Unified Command Plan
Northern Command for homeland defense and domestic emergencies.
Joint Forces Command to focus on Transformation.
Strategic Command replaces Space Command—missions include ballistic missile defense and WMD.
Finalizing plan for new combatant command for Africa.
Developing mechanisms for Combatant Commanders to have dual-responsibilities in key countries, e.g. Mexico.
Reorganized Department Leadership
Created an Undersecretary for Intelligence.
Created an Assistant Secretary for Homeland Defense.
Created an Assistant Secretary for Network Information Integration/Chief Information Officer.
Budget:Consolidated the program/budget process into a 2-year cycle.
National Security Personnel System (NSPS): About 10,000 civilian employees incorporated into a system that allows for greater flexibility in hiring, promotion, and assignment.
Military to Civilian Conversion: About 20,000 positions previously held by uniformed military personnel are now performed by civilians, freeing up troops for military tasks and assignments.
Business Processes:Created the Business Transformation Agency to improve DoD’s business processes, systems, and investment governance
Base Realignment and Closure (BRAC): Implemented largest BRAC round in history, saving taxpayers $5.5 million per year.
Transportation: Established TRANSCOM as owner of the distribution process from factory to foxhole, as opposed to from port to port.
Defense Logistics Agency: Established as sole entity for supply chain.
Senior Level Review Group: Established to improve civilian-military interaction.
Headquarters Staff: Decreased by 10 percent to reduce unnecessary overhead and duplication
IV. ALLIANCES AND PARTNERSHIPS

Global Posture
Cold War arrangements overseas being updated to reflect new threats and circumstances.
Thousands of troops and families being moved from Germany, Japan, and South Korea.
NATO
Stood up new NATO Response Force.
Created Allied Transformation Command.
Deployment of ISAF to Afghanistan and training mission to Iraq.
Headquarters and overhead reduced.
Proliferation Security Initiative: Implemented a 60-nation partnership to interdict dangerous weapons and materials.
New Security Partnerships: Developed in the Pacific, Central and South Asia, Eastern Europe and the Balkans, and South America.
Georgian Train and Equip Program.
Restructure Defense Attaché program to align with new Security Cooperation Guidance.
Global Peacekeeping Operations Initiative
V. PEOPLE

Medical
Military Amputee Training Center.
State-of-the-art medical care for combat operations in Iraq and Afghanistan.
Smallpox Vaccination Program.
Quality of Life: Longer tours at home bases to provide less disruption to family life.
Housing: Privatized several housing programs and built thousands of military housing units.
Active Component / Reserve Component: “Rebalanced” thousands of personnel spaces both within and between the components to reduce stress on the forces.
Targeted Pay Raises: Aimed to attract most talented skilled people in high demand.
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Old 01-15-2007, 04:11 PM   #3261
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Godspeed and Thanks, Rummy!

Quote:
Originally posted by Penske_Account
Shameless Rummy PR paid for with your tax dollars
Impressive work - I see you're already on the anti-Obama crusade. Anything to help Hillary out, right?
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Old 01-15-2007, 04:12 PM   #3262
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Quote:
Originally posted by Tyrone Slothrop
If you could have reinforced Gen. Douglas MacArthur in the Philippines in late 1941, would you have done so?
If we could have helped him hold out to the point of effectively being able to defend the island indefinitely then yes. If it would have delayed the invetible loss of the Phillipines, so we would have simply lost more men and material - then no. Do you think it is inevitable that we will lose in Iraq?

Pulling MacArthur out of the Phillipines was a tactical move so we could achieve our overall strategic objective of defeating Japan. The next tactical move we make in Iraq, should be done in order to achieve our strategic goal of establishing a stable democracy in Iraq.

Do you have a better tactical move in Iraq, other than the surge, that we lead to our overall strategic goal?

Quote:
Originally posted by Tyrone Slothrop
In brief, we need to be realistic about how to make the best of a bad situation. We need to stop fighting the war for the Iraqi government, such as it is, because we are getting in the way of political reconciliation.
That was a totally useless answer. If you are going to criticize the administrations policy, you better have an alternate policy, or your criticisms are just B.S. Something has to be done. The quesion is what.
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Old 01-15-2007, 04:14 PM   #3263
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Hey! Nothing is working, so let's throw money at the problem!

Quote:
Originally posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy
So you want to send as many people as possible even if it is not enough to do the job?

Are you looking to create the best possible example of the limits of American power for the whole world to see? To have the grandest possible loss? One that only occurs after we drag this out, incur the maximum loss of life, and see all other coalition members depart?

I know it is tempting to see a problem and say, hey, let's just throw a lot of money at it, and a whole bunch of people, and see if we can fix it. But that's really just a way to waste a lot of money and see a lot of people die.
So are you saying that we should just give up? Just pull out our troops now and call it a loss?
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Old 01-15-2007, 04:14 PM   #3264
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Punk'ing the Military

Quote:
Originally posted by Penske_Account
He's a super genius.

Given how Rummy's eyeing Spidey's crotch, it's no surprise he liked sticking it to the military.
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Old 01-15-2007, 04:24 PM   #3265
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Quote:
Originally posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy
Impressive work - I see you're already on the anti-Obama crusade. Anything to help Hillary out, right?

Sorry Hank, but I have to thank Trip-G for highlighting that one. I got a great chuckle out of it.
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Old 01-15-2007, 04:36 PM   #3266
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Hey! Nothing is working, so let's throw money at the problem!

Quote:
Originally posted by Spanky
So are you saying that we should just give up? Just pull out our troops now and call it a loss?
The first step is to identify achievable objectives. Bush has been unable to do anything but yell platitudes. My great fear is that this failure at the top simply can't be remedied for two more years.

Right now, as best I can figure it out, Bush will only be satisfied if there is a stable and unified pro-US Democracy in Iraq (roughly along the lines of, say, England, but without the welfare state stuff).

My problem with those goals of stability, unity, pro-US, and Democracy is that they generally conflict with each other and Bush is unwilling to select his priorities or figure out what in there is appropriately accomplished with the military: the longer we stay, the more anti-American public sentiment is, and thus the more anti-American a real Democracy will be. Likewise, the more we force continued unification, the less Democratic the country will be.

So, among those 4, Bush needs to figure out what is important to him. If it is the Democracy piece, he should highlight that, forget about the other three, and figure out if that is an appropriate military object and, if not, how to pull out the military and use other tools, like diplomacy and economic agreements, to achieve his goals.
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Old 01-15-2007, 04:51 PM   #3267
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Hey! Nothing is working, so let's throw money at the problem!

Quote:
Originally posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy
The first step is to identify achievable objectives. Bush has been unable to do anything but yell platitudes. My great fear is that this failure at the top simply can't be remedied for two more years.

Right now, as best I can figure it out, Bush will only be satisfied if there is a stable and unified pro-US Democracy in Iraq (roughly along the lines of, say, England, but without the welfare state stuff).

My problem with those goals of stability, unity, pro-US, and Democracy is that they generally conflict with each other and Bush is unwilling to select his priorities or figure out what in there is appropriately accomplished with the military: the longer we stay, the more anti-American public sentiment is, and thus the more anti-American a real Democracy will be. Likewise, the more we force continued unification, the less Democratic the country will be.

So, among those 4, Bush needs to figure out what is important to him. If it is the Democracy piece, he should highlight that, forget about the other three, and figure out if that is an appropriate military object and, if not, how to pull out the military and use other tools, like diplomacy and economic agreements, to achieve his goals.
Blah, blah, blah, blah. In the real world decisions have to made and policies implemented.

What do you think he is doing that is not leading to a stable, unified, Democracy, and what does he need to do to reach that goal? If you think all are not achievable, which ones do you think are achievable and how do we get there?
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Old 01-15-2007, 05:14 PM   #3268
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Hey! Nothing is working, so let's throw money at the problem!

Quote:
Originally posted by Spanky
Blah, blah, blah, blah. In the real world decisions have to made and policies implemented.

What do you think he is doing that is not leading to a stable, unified, Democracy, and what does he need to do to reach that goal? If you think all are not achievable, which ones do you think are achievable and how do we get there?
Well, you can read prior posts or the Iraq Study Group Report for all kinds of things he's not doing, but one place to start is to negotiate with all players, internally and externally.

I'd also limit our priority goals to achieving stability and a government receptive to American influence. Unity is their problem, not ours, and Democracy needs to be built on a self-interested, educated middle class - it's not a military objective.

There are, of course, many other things he should be thinking about, but you might as well start by embracing the obvious.

Oh, and expect to see a few "blah, blah, blah" reactions to your posts - I mean, I could respect a zinger from Hank on run-on posts, but have you checked out the amount of glass on your house lately?

Last edited by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy; 01-15-2007 at 05:30 PM..
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Old 01-15-2007, 05:43 PM   #3269
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Quote:
Originally posted by Spanky
Do you think it is inevitable that we will lose in Iraq?
What do you mean by "lose" (or, alternatively, "win")?

I do not think thay we can bring a stable, secular democracy to Iraq. At this point, I believe that whenever we pull out we will leave behind chaos. Whether that is this year or two or three years from now seems to me to be the likely difference between "surging" and pulling out.

If, however, your definition of winning is to bring a slight reduction to the level of violence and keep in power the existing Iraqi regime for a few years, then yeah, maybe the surge will work.

Quote:
If you are going to criticize the administrations policy, you better have an alternate policy, or your criticisms are just B.S.
I'm sorry, but that is a cop out. There is no weaker defense, especially in polite conversation among individuals with no say in what will actually happen.

Last edited by Adder; 01-15-2007 at 05:46 PM..
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Old 01-15-2007, 06:01 PM   #3270
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Punk'ing the Military

Quote:
Originally posted by Penske_Account
He's a super genius.
Hmmmm. That would explain a lot. And ACME is a Halliburton subsidiary . . .

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