Meet your new thread, same as the old thread. - Page 227

SlaveNoMore · 10-16-2007, 07:05 PM

Quote:

Mmmm, Burger (C.J.)
Could you find us a security-related firm that has a Democrat at the helm? When a ex-mil guy starts a military like company, it's probably not going to have a bunch of peaceful liberals.

An Inconvenient Truth, indeed.

Mmmm, Burger (C.J.) · 10-16-2007, 07:07 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Tyrone Slothrop
Doesn't it seem likely that firms like Blackwater are the combination of the unholy marriage of the Bush Administration and the Iraq War? I'll go out on a limb and suggest this without going and doing a little research. The Bush Administration has had a particular propensity towards crony capitalism, letting policy be trumped by the need for political favors. Outsourcing government functions is a particularly good way to do this, since government spending gets routed to private companies (which then give money to politicians to keep the spigot open) instead of government workers, who vote Democratic. Until '06, you had a GOP Congress making concerted efforts not share the spoils. Trying to fight wars at the same time in Afghanistan and Iraq stretched the military. The Rumsfeld Doctrine and domestic poltical calculations left Bush trying to wages these wars without expandign the military. This meant they needed to hire lots of private contractors. Look at the way the CPA was run -- do you imagine for a second they would have contracted from a firm run by a Democratic donor? People with non-partisan experience were passed over for CPA jobs in favor of well-connected hacks from conservative think tanks.

There actually are lots of people in the military who are Democrats. But if they're selling to the government, there's been good reason for them not to reveal this.

so you're saying it's gold-plated toilet seats all over again?

Gattigap · 10-16-2007, 07:16 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by sebastian_dangerfield
For the neocons who ran this thing through, we "won" the minute our soldiers landed.

And from a political perspective, the war is a huge gift for the GOP going forward. It's losing its bread and butter "Southern Strategy" due to economic issues at home. The fallback position is to have a nation perpetually involved in some conflict, so it can run on the defense issue. Giuliani is already doing that. You hear him offering one coherent economic policy?

Islam's the new USSR. No news there, I know...

Damn. I thought it was China. OTOH, perhaps the Yellow Horde is simply a good fallback in case the Swarthy Horde doesn't keep voters going to the polls.

sebastian_dangerfield · 10-16-2007, 07:22 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Gattigap
Damn. I thought it was China. OTOH, perhaps the Yellow Horde is simply a good fallback in case the Swarthy Horde doesn't keep voters going to the polls.

There's no traction in that for the GOP. China and India are the bogeymen for the Lou Dobbs protectionists.

sebastian_dangerfield · 10-16-2007, 07:27 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Tyrone Slothrop
Doesn't it seem likely that firms like Blackwater are the combination of the unholy marriage of the Bush Administration and the Iraq War? I'll go out on a limb and suggest this without going and doing a little research. The Bush Administration has had a particular propensity towards crony capitalism, letting policy be trumped by the need for political favors. Outsourcing government functions is a particularly good way to do this, since government spending gets routed to private companies (which then give money to politicians to keep the spigot open) instead of government workers, who vote Democratic. Until '06, you had a GOP Congress making concerted efforts not share the spoils. Trying to fight wars at the same time in Afghanistan and Iraq stretched the military. The Rumsfeld Doctrine and domestic poltical calculations left Bush trying to wages these wars without expandign the military. This meant they needed to hire lots of private contractors. Look at the way the CPA was run -- do you imagine for a second they would have contracted from a firm run by a Democratic donor? People with non-partisan experience were passed over for CPA jobs in favor of well-connected hacks from conservative think tanks.

There actually are lots of people in the military who are Democrats. But if they're selling to the government, there's been good reason for them not to reveal this.

And the cure's the same one people have been offering for 100 years - term limits. This is why Democrats who advocate higher taxes drive me nuts. For what? To route the money into the system you describe?

Tyrone Slothrop · 10-16-2007, 08:17 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by sebastian_dangerfield
And the cure's the same one people have been offering for 100 years - term limits. This is why Democrats who advocate higher taxes drive me nuts. For what? To route the money into the system you describe?

Why is term limits the cure for a problem we didn't have ten years ago?

eta: If the problem is a combination of political patronage and trying to fight a war without an Army, why do you think term limits will fix anything? Won't it just prompt legislators to cash in quicker?

Hank Chinaski · 10-16-2007, 09:32 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Tyrone Slothrop
Why is term limits the cure for a problem we didn't have ten years ago?

eta: If the problem is a combination of political patronage and trying to fight a war without an Army, why do you think term limits will fix anything? Won't it just prompt legislators to cash in quicker?

we have term limits here. a few weeks ago the state almost shut down because there were so few people in the legislature that knew how to get deals done. so they are a bad idea.

i'm counting this. Hank 334-21

Atticus Grinch · 10-17-2007, 03:58 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by ltl/fb
Why can we pay Blackwater enough for them to offer someone $500k (and Blackwater earns a profit on top of what they are paying him, and also pays benefits etc. for him) but we can't keep people in the armed services?

Actually, when you add up all costs, it would not surprise me in the slightest to learn that the USA pays well over $500K per year per GI on active duty. The only difference is that Blackwater pays cash in the current FY, and piggybacks off the uniformed services for infrastructure and probably some benefits.

Mmmm, Burger (C.J.) · 10-17-2007, 10:17 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Atticus Grinch
Actually, when you add up all costs, it would not surprise me in the slightest to learn that the USA pays well over $500K per year per GI on active duty. The only difference is that Blackwater pays cash in the current FY, and piggybacks off the uniformed services for infrastructure and probably some benefits.

2. Kind of like how in-house counsel seem underpaid compared to their billable-equivalents in a law firm.

I suspect the NPV of benefits to an enlisted soldier are quite a bit higher than the $40k they nominally get to start.

Atticus Grinch · 10-17-2007, 11:38 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Mmmm, Burger (C.J.)
2. Kind of like how in-house counsel seem underpaid compared to their billable-equivalents in a law firm.

I suspect the NPV of benefits to an enlisted soldier are quite a bit higher than the $40k they nominally get to start.

I waited too long to get out of the private sector because I had been taught to compare apples to apples, and law firm life offered a lot of apples. Which is all well and good, except when you're deciding which pile of fruit is bigger and one pile has a big fucking orange in it.

Tyrone Slothrop · 10-17-2007, 12:42 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Atticus Grinch
I waited too long to get out of the private sector because I had been taught to compare apples to apples, and law firm life offered a lot of apples. Which is all well and good, except when you're deciding which pile of fruit is bigger and one pile has a big fucking orange in it.

IIRC, Hank's firm has a pumpkin.