Fashion Board 1-08-04 through 02-03-04

[Greedy,Greedy,Greedy]

A few observations on the above conversation:

R.P. is ready. Go for it, guys.

Sebby will deny he is ready until it is too late; then he will either need a new model wife or to live with his regret forever more.

P.J. isn't ready, but won't know when she is.

BnB kinda thinks her friend would have been an acceptable alternative spouse. (BnB, how does he get along with the Brazenette?)

[purse junkie]

Originally posted by bold_n_brazen
How on earth can you all make this out to be the guy's fault?

Man-haters.

It's not. It's both of theirs. Hers for being a lying, betraying asshole, and his for not taking extra precautions once his wife said he MUST have a baby with her REALLY SOON or she'd end the marriage.

I will never see what's man-hating about saying a guy who definitely doesn't want to have kids has to take some personal initiative to avoid them.

[baltassoc]

Originally posted by NotFromHere
That sounds like a soap opera plot.
Still, if he asked for 3 months to decide, he should have taken some initiative in that department knowing what she wanted.

Well, he was still thinking about it, and might have come out in favor fo the kid, so vasectomy was out, and the other two alternatives require essentially ending all trust in the marriage:

"Well, honey, I know you'd like to have sex tonight, but I don't trust you to still be on the pill since you've told me you want a kid, so [a) no or b) we need to use a condom]."

Yeah. That's going to work.

[Replaced_Texan]

Originally posted by str8outavannuys
By the time intelligent people hit marriage age (25?), they should (and deep down, they do) know whether they want children or not, or they at least know that they haven't made up their mind. I think that it's ok to change one's mind on this around age 14-20, but by 25 you should be ready to commit to breed or not breed, or at least know that you're not certain. And you should pair up accordingly.

Back when I was 25, I was dating a guy who absolutely refused to take a risk about having kids. He had a rare genetic disease that he absolutely positively did not want passed on to any putative kids. I understood that rationale, and I think I would have agreed to the "no kids" thing with him had we gotten married. (Interestingly enough, I don't think he ever thought about a vascetomy, or if he did we never talked about it.)

Now that 25 is a few years behind me, I know that I can't make that kind of promise to someone. It's not that I'm itching to have kids tomorrow or by some arbitrary date, but I have a general idea that I would like a kid or two, and I can't promise someone that I don't want them. But it does also depend on the circumstances. Maybe he has a genetic disorder, maybe he already has two or three kids, maybe he knows that he can't devote the time to kids or make the kinds of sacrifices that kids require. I'm not writing off potential (I was going to say mates, but that's the wrong word) partners because of the kid issue, but it is a factor.

Anyhow, I have a list of very hot gay men who've volunteered to donate sperm should I ever want to have kids on my own.

[sebastian_dangerfield]

Originally posted by Not Bob
Uh, no you won't.*

I'd just as soon not know anything about the Not Bobette's sex life -- whether before, during, or after marriage or civil committment ceremony or whatever.

By the way, denial is not ignorance. One can say "I don't want to know anything about it, but if you're going to be stupid, don't be an idiot -- use a condom."

*Or maybe you will. What do I know? But thinking about this thing in the abstract is a lot different than thinking about it when little Sabrina Dangerfield introduces you to some dude (whoops -- I meant "cat") who reminds you of all of the smarmy Lotharios you knew at the DKE house.

Sex is utterly natural. Why would I have an issue with my daughter doing what people do naturally and enjoying herself?

I used to have parties at my folks home when they were away, during which my little sister would nail her idiot bf in one of the extra bedrooms upstairs. Friends used to say "How can you deal with that?" I'd say "Its none of my business. She does what she wants." I want my kids to be complete normal people, so they ought to start fucking responsibly in late HS/early college, so that by the time they'll have ahad full sex lives and healthy attitudes about sex by the time they get hitched later, rather than hang ups about it. Sex is like the booze in the downstairs liquor cabinet. Tell your kids its forbidden and evil and they'll want it more and abuse it when you're away.

[bilmore]

Originally posted by purse junkie
I will never see what's man-hating about saying a guy who definitely doesn't want to have kids has to take some personal initiative to avoid them.

I would think that having been given the three-month ultimatum would sort of cool the lustful feelings all by itself.

[purse junkie]

Originally posted by Hank Chinaski
Whooah now. You can't make a guy get snipped. Maybe he doesn't want kids with current wife, but what is they get divorced? He meets young, hot potential wife 2, who insists she'll have kids. If he's willing to compromise for #2, why should he have ruined his ability as a show for #1?

Ahh. Then perhaps he might try persuade his wife with, "well, I don't want kids with you, you wrinkled skank, but if a young hottie comes along, I might." He will get his wish to maybe go for it with wife #2 even sooner than he planned!

[bold_n_brazen]

Originally posted by str8outavannuys


By the time intelligent people hit marriage age (25?), they should (and deep down, they do) know whether they want children or not, or they at least know that they haven't made up their mind. I think that it's ok to change one's mind on this around age 14-20, but by 25 you should be ready to commit to breed or not breed, or at least know that you're not certain. And you should pair up accordingly.

The whole "when i got married, I knew I didn't want children, and now I know the opposite" thing is, in a word, bullshit. Adults don't pull 180 degree turns about their most fundamental beliefs of who they are. At least, not without major life-altering experiences.

Disagree. I always thought I didn't want children and then, one day, in my early 30's, I realized I did, very much. And that I would have one, whether I ever married or not.

Had I married the cat about whom I told the saddest story I've ever heard, I would have agreed with him at the time that I didn't want kids. And then one day, after several years of marriage, I would have discovered that I did.

I too would have approached him and said exactly what his wife said..."I want a kid. I'd like to have one with you. But if you don't want to have one, I'm gonna go and have one on my own, after our divorce is finalized." If he'd asked for a couple of months to think about it, I would have respected that time and allowed him to make a decision. After all, I'd had time to make mine. But after the 3 months, I'd have required an answer. And if I didn't like the one I'd gotten, I'd have left.

[leagleaze]

Originally posted by str8outavannuys
The whole "when i got married, I knew I didn't want children, and now I know the opposite" thing is, in a word, bullshit. Adults don't pull 180 degree turns about their most fundamental beliefs of who they are. At least, not without major life-altering experiences.

People do change, amazing I know, but they do. Rarely is it a 180, but rather, a gradual change. A woman (or a man for that matter) doesn't just wake up one day and say you know, I do want kids after all. She gradually moves in that direction until one day the feelings become strong enough that she says something.

Of course, if the men in question in these relationships would just get the snipping done before the marriage, it wouldn't be such an issue would it? If these guys don't want to have kids, why don't they have the procedure? Could it be because they think they might want to change their minds? It isn't major surgery like it is for a woman, so what is the big deal?

As far as getting pregnant on purpose (bnb's story) I think that woman sucked. And it isn't the guy's fault. He asked for something reasonable, time, to think about her request. She should have respected it and he should have been able to trust her.

As far as Sebbie's friend, unless she deceived him, she didn't do anything wrong, and neither did he. He didn't change, she did. How rare in a marriage.

This isn't a promise like I will eat lunch with you every day and be your bestest friend in the whole wide world. It is a serious issue and people change their minds about it. Both men and women.

[sebastian_dangerfield]

Originally posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy
A few observations on the above conversation:

R.P. is ready. Go for it, guys.

Sebby will deny he is ready until it is too late; then he will either need a new model wife or to live with his regret forever more.

P.J. isn't ready, but won't know when she is.

BnB kinda thinks her friend would have been an acceptable alternative spouse. (BnB, how does he get along with the Brazenette?)

Um, no... I told the Mrs we'd have a kid while she can still do so safely, and that if it worked it ok, we'd try for a second of the opposite sex, but two max. I ain't waiting too late... I just happen to have a luxury of time right now, but the decision's been made.

[bold_n_brazen]

Originally posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy


BnB kinda thinks her friend would have been an acceptable alternative spouse. (BnB, how does he get along with the Brazenette?)

This friend is my first love. I'll always think he would have been an acceptable alternative spouse.

And since he has never meet the Brazenette in person, he seems absolutely immune to her charms.

[robustpuppy]

Originally posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy
R.P. is ready. Go for it, guys.

You don't know what the fuck you're talking about.

[baltassoc]

Originally posted by robustpuppy
And not for nothing, but what percentage of women get pregnant within 3 months of stopping the pill? Perhaps her motives weren't pure, but she never expected the result to be so quick.

Likelihood of conception is significantly higher in the month after quitting the pill. There is some indication (according to baltspouse's OB/GYN) that it may increase the likelihood of multiple egg ovulations, and therefore increase the odds of fraternal twins.

[bold_n_brazen]

Originally posted by baltassoc
Likelihood of conception is significantly higher in the month after quitting the pill. There is some indication (according to baltspouse's OB/GYN) that it may increase the likelihood of multiple egg ovulations, and therefore increase the odds of fraternal twins.

For the record, when we decide to have another, I will actually kill myself if I find out I am carrying twins.

[purse junkie]

Originally posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy
P.J. isn't ready, but won't know when she is.

You're amusing when you smoke crack.