Fashionistas you have arrived 3-25-03 - 10-3-03

[Replaced_Texan]

TV job offer for former Iraqi information minister

DUBAI (AFP) - An Arab TV news channel has offered a job to Saddam Hussein (news - web sites)'s top spin doctor, former Iraqi Information Minister Mohammed Said al-Sahhaf.

Sahhaf, who became a global celebrity for his persistant refusal to admit that US troops were in Baghdad, has been told by the Dubai-based Al-Arabiya channel that there is a job waiting for him.

Read more

I wonder if a bidding war is going to start.

[leagleaze]

Generally I think bitch is used towards women, and gay men. Asshole I don't know if I use towards women, probably, I guess I don't think it applies to any particular sex.

The biggest insults towards men seem to be those that question their masculinity. Whilst a lot of the insults towards women seem to challenge their femininity in some way.

dick, fag, pussy. The latter two suggest the man isn't a man. The former is using his body part as an insult. The last is using the female body part as one.

hag, cunt, dyke. The middle is using the woman's body part to define her, suggesting there is something nasty about it. That is why it is so offensive to me. Hag is a good example of a word men and younger women frequently use to attack a woman, to suggest she is somehow not attractive enough, too old, somehow unwomanly. Dyke basically says you are so much not a woman, you are like a man because you like to have sex with women.

Every one of these words can be offensive. But they also can be said with humor. And they also can have double meanings. Dick can just mean you jerk. Hag can just mean you are being unattractive in terms of your personality.

In the end though, it is the tone of voice and the expression of the face of the person as he or she calls me whatever it is he or she is calling me that determines whether I will truly be offended.

[ThurgreedMarshall]

Originally posted by robustpuppy
I think it's great to call a woman an asshole when she deserves it. The word is so evocative and not-gender specific, it ought to be used against more women. More accurate than bitch in so many cases. Also a better use for women in power, as bitch is often a sexist slur when used against them. For example, I'm not a Hillary basher, but isn't she more of an asshole than a bitch?

Why don't you just go with "Ma'am?"

Thurgreed(but that really only works between women)Marshall

I was walking down the sidewalk at lunchtime today deep in thought about a project I am working on when all of a sudden something knocks the glasses off of my head. Some assclown is carrying an umbrella which is a dangerous fucking weapon if that person is short. So, I automatically just let loose years of umbrella rage. Didnt even think about it and was a little embaraased after I did it. " Watch your fucking umbrella,. It isnt even fucking raining. Asshole".

The person was a woman. She was an asshole and not a bitch. Though some may say I was.

[robustpuppy]

Originally posted by spookyfish
Yikes. All that reasoning and not a single cogent point.

Male equivalents to hag - if related to age? Hmmm.

Geezer
Old Fart

...

The word doesn't imply that there is anything wrong with being a woman. Are all hags women, by definition? Yes. Are all women hags? Most certainly not. Why a problem with "hag" and not with "cunt" or "bitch". Is it the word used or the person using the word that is the problem?

But the word does imply that there is something wrong with being an old woman. I think the difference between "bitch" and "hag" comes down to this: bitch is an insult because it implies that a woman is being unwomanly by being aggressive or self-centered or whathave you. Those same qualities are admired in men because they are associated with ambition and success. Bitch has become less insulting because those qualities are not considered to be so gender-specific anymore. (This is all obvious, we all know this.)

Now, everybody wants to be (or at least should want to be ) ambitious and successful, and today, at least in our circles, unambitious women may face the same stigma that ambitious women faced in the not too distant past. So bitch is not such an insult anymore. And it can be applied to men, too.

But as for hag, well, let's face it -- nobody wants to be old.

Ageism affects women much earlier in their lives than it does men. Women are not allowed to get old in our culture -- they become invisible when they reach middle age. That does not happen to men to the same degree until they reach retirement age. Geezer and old fart are also ageist, of course, but they just don't carry the same weight.

The word "hag," therefore, reflects a double bias. I'm thinking of a post on the old FB where I think Sebby asked (I apologize if it was not he) why people liked Sex and the City so much. He wondered why people would care about a bunch of over the hill women. Now, Carrie and Charlotte and Miranda are all supposed to be about 35. Is 35 over the hill? I read somewhere that it was the new 25.

So I see Paigow's point, Spooky; but hate to see you get so bugged by that from another planet crack. It was barely a flicker.

r(Ma'am? The worst fucking insult of all. Unless you're in the South, I guess.)p

Originally posted by robustpuppy
But the word does imply that there is something wrong with being an old woman. I think the difference between "bitch" and "hag" comes down to this: bitch is an insult because it implies that a woman is being unwomanly by being aggressive or self-centered or whathave you. Those same qualities are admired in men because they are associated with ambition and success. Bitch has become less insulting because those qualities are not considered to be so gender-specific anymore. (This is all obvious, we all know this.)

Now, everybody wants to be (or at least should want to be ) ambitious and successful, and today, at least in our circles, unambitious women may face the same stigma that ambitious women faced in the not too distant past. So bitch is not such an insult anymore. And it can be applied to men, too.

But as for hag, well, let's face it -- nobody wants to be old.

Ageism affects women much earlier in their lives than it does men. Women are not allowed to get old in our culture -- they become invisible when they reach middle age. That does not happen to men to the same degree until they reach retirement age. Geezer and old fart are also ageist, of course, but they just don't carry the same weight.

The word "hag," therefore, reflects a double bias. I'm thinking of a post on the old FB where I think Sebby asked (I apologize if it was not he) why people liked Sex and the City so much. He wondered why people would care about a bunch of over the hill women. Now, Carrie and Charlotte and Miranda are all supposed to be about 35. Is 35 over the hill? I read somewhere that it was the new 25.

So I see Paigow's point, Spooky; but hate to see you get so bugged by that from another planet crack. It was barely a flicker.

r(Ma'am? The worst fucking insult of all. Unless you're in the South, I guess.)p

Thats right spoogybitch, repeat to yourself that paigow is always right. she may not edit and explain it in the great detail that lesser minds need to have it explained to grasp the concept , but she is always right. And if you disagree, be prepared to put forth a strong argument. Otherwise you just look like a pitiful old fart who is enraged for little reason but just cant fight back.

[robustpuppy]

Originally posted by paigowprincess
Thats right spoogybitch, repeat to yourself that paigow is always right. she may not edit and explain it in the great detail that lesser minds need to have it explained to grasp the concept , but she is always right. And if you disagree, be prepared to put forth a strong argument. Otherwise you just look like a pitiful old fart who is enraged for little reason but just cant fight back.

I feel so used, Paigow. You should not use me as an instrument in your own design. Who was it who wrote, "Act in such a way that you always treat humanity, whether in your own person or in the person of any other, never simply as a means, but always at the same time as an end."

If I remember correctly, it was Kant. (Just rolls off the tongue, doesn't it?)

So keep me out of your fights, you bitch.

Originally posted by robustpuppy
I feel so used, Paigow. You should not use me as an instrument in your own design. Who was it who wrote, "Act in such a way that you always treat humanity, whether in your own person or in the person of any other, never simply as a means, but always at the same time as an end."

If I remember correctly, it was Kant. Just rolls off the tongue, doesn't it, bitch?

I thought it was Jesus. But good play on words. I dont get how you were used. You illustrated my point quite nicely and pointed out that he was pulling a sebby and attacking each post I had without actually making a solid argument for little reason. I was just sitting back letting him make an ass of himself.

[robustpuppy]

Originally posted by paigowprincess
I thought it was Jesus. But good play on words. I dont get how you were used. You illustrated my point quite nicely and pointed out that he was pulling a sebby and attacking each post I had without actually making a solid argument for little reason. I was just sitting back letting him make an ass of himself.

And here I thought I was just being pedantic.

I never anticipated that one of my posts would be use to prove that you are always right.

I now believe that you, too, will make partner some day.

[spookyfish]

Originally posted by robustpuppy

So bitch is not such an insult anymore. And it can be applied to men, too.

But as for hag, well, let's face it -- nobody wants to be old.

Ageism affects women much earlier in their lives than it does men. Women are not allowed to get old in our culture -- they become invisible when they reach middle age. That does not happen to men to the same degree until they reach retirement age. Geezer and old fart are also ageist, of course, but they just don't carry the same weight.

The word "hag," therefore, reflects a double bias. Is 35 over the hill? I read somewhere that it was the new 25.

So I see Paigow's point, Spooky; but hate to see you get so bugged by that from another planet crack. It was barely a flicker.

r(Ma'am? The worst fucking insult of all.)p

I still think this has more to do with who is delivering (and perhaps who is receiving) the insult than what word is actually used.

I'm not so certain about the continuing marginalization of older women in our culture relative to men. Because public perception generally follows media bias, I think that was a much more common issue before. I read an article recently about how actresses now entering what is commonly referred to as "middle age" are getting lead roles that 10 years ago might have been unthinkable. Examples cited in the article included Meryl Streep, Julianne Moore (who is in her 40's, I think) and a few others I don't recall at the moment, then again, I don't go to many movies.

Turn on a TV at any time. Women like Andie MacDowell and Isabella Rosellini, both in their '40s doing cosmetics and hair color commercials. Both middle aged. Both still considered vibrant and beautiful and dare I say, youthful.

I think this will continue to change as the so called baby boomers age, because of the influence they still hold over our culture, and the fact that they as a group have fought more aggressively against aging than any other generation to date. And with the first wave of baby boomers reaching retirement age, you won't see their political and social clout go away easily. I think your comment about 35 being the new 25 is apropos. As larger portions of the population age, there is going to a shift in what society views as old.

Yes, growing old sucks. No one wants to. But I don't thing hag is any more offensive than geezer or old fart, personally. FWIW, I'd bet dollars to donuts I'm older than Paigow (But not as old as bilmore -- nobody's as old as bilmore). Big deal.

Sorry, but men being called "bitches" isn't all that compelling a comparison, as it usually implies that particular man is the catcher while someone else is pitching. Its more about lack of power than power. The flip-side of the coin with respect to your description of the term as applied to women.

Sorry, maybe I overreacted to her comment. As a matter of fact, I know I did.

I just was responding to what I considered as an especially snarky comment, considering that at the beginning of the thread, I actually made an attempt to be helpful by answering a question she posed.

I mean, forgive me I didn't know about some obscure local politician in PA who committed suicide 16 years ago without looking it up. I admitted as much before said comment was made. It's not so much the comment that got to me, It's just that sometimes I tire of her "Oh so supeeerior" schtick. As I made clear before, it goes more to the general unpleasantness of her demeanor than anything else. Ok, off my soapbox, now.

[spookyfish]

Originally posted by paigowprincess
Thats right spoogybitch, repeat to yourself that paigow is always right. she may not edit and explain it in the great detail that lesser minds need to have it explained to grasp the concept , but she is always right. And if you disagree, be prepared to put forth a strong argument. Otherwise you just look like a pitiful old fart who is enraged for little reason but just cant fight back.

Talking about yourself in the third person is quite unbecoming.

We are not amused.

And what was that, you think Jesus is talking to you now? Time for your medication.

Edited to eliminate serial serial posts, b/c leagl don't like 'em.

[Did you just call me Coltrane?]

Originally posted by Atticus Grinch
Though I seriously doubt paigow's hurt feelings are more than feigned, I have to ask the women of the board --- what's the current feeling on womyn-centric name-calling?

Let's leave aside the c-word, which is unspeakable and a hot-button issue unto itself. But how about "bitch"? Is it sexist and loaded and unfair, or just the feminine-gendered "asshole"? Are there any women who would prefer to be called a "dick"? Or an "asshole" or "prick"? What do we do with women who are cowardly --- can we call such woman "pussies" without it being mistaken for a sexual slur? Let's assume, for the moment, that we won't succeed in stamping out the use of the p-word as applied to men; does it minimize the slight to women to have it apply to them based on an ungendered character flaw?

Inquiring minds want to know.

Somewhat apropos is the word that women hate the most, and it's not the c-word nor is it insulting. Although if it is combined with the c-word its effectiveness is multiplied (although the c-word or p-word or any slang word for the vagina adds effectiveness). My friends and I have tested this word and have yet to find a women who likes the sound/meaning of this word. Oddly enough, possibly the only time it can be used appropriately is when it is followed by the word "cake". The word is "moist".

Women REALLY REALLY dislike it when you use it with the c-word, especially if you're playing the who-can-say-it-louder-than-the-last-person-who-said-it game at a party!

[leagleaze]

Originally posted by Did you just call me Coltrane?
Somewhat apropos is the word that women hate the most, and it's not the c-word nor is it insulting. Although if it is combined with the c-word its effectiveness is multiplied (although the c-word or p-word or any slang word for the vagina adds effectiveness). My friends and I have tested this word and have yet to find a women who likes the sound/meaning of this word. Oddly enough, possibly the only time it can be used appropriately is when it is followed by the word "cake". The word is "moist".

Women REALLY REALLY dislike it when you use it with the c-word, especially if you're playing the who-can-say-it-louder-than-the-last-person-who-said-it game at a party!

Make it stop.

Seriously, moist?

That's just strange.

[AngryMulletMan]

Originally posted by kafka_esquire
Going to a wedding this weekend. Have not yet purchased a gift because, quite honestly, this is the second marriage for both, they are combining (have combined) two full homes of stuff, and they do not appear to need (or want for) anything.

As someone who was very recently on the receiving end of some god-awful wedding gifts and who has a house way too full of stuff (gee, honey, do we really need FIVE FUCKING BEDS?) I would have really appreciated a gift certificate from The Container Store. Goodness knows, I've been over there enough.

AM(why can't men part with outdated stereo components?)M

[bilmore]

Originally posted by spookyfish
But not as old as bilmore -- nobody's as old as bilmore).

Bilmore's not even as old as Bilmore.