Politics: J'accuse!

[bilmore]

Originally posted by Not Flinty [list]
Rep. Charles Rangel of New York joined the chorus of Democrats calling for Rumsfeld to step down or for Bush to fire him. If neither happens, Rangel said, Congress should impeach the defense secretary "for withholding from the president, Congress and the American people information on the abuses at the Iraqi prison."

Cool. Rangel has now expressed more outrage over putting panties on prisoners' heads than he did over people jumping from the WTC.

[ltl/fb]

Originally posted by bilmore
Cool. Rangel has now expressed more outrage over putting panties on prisoners' heads than he did over people jumping from the WTC.

I wasn't outraged by people jumping from the WTC. I'd rather be sure I die quickly from impact than run the risk of suffocating or burning to death.

[Duplicity]

Originally posted by ltl/fb
I wasn't outraged by people jumping from the WTC. I'd rather be sure I die quickly from impact than run the risk of suffocating or burning to death.

Jet fuel burns hot.

[bilmore]

Originally posted by ltl/fb
I wasn't outraged by people jumping from the WTC.

'Nuff said.

[Not Flinty]

Originally posted by bilmore
'Nuff said.

I'm just curious: Do you really think that Rangel wasn't outraged by 9/11, or are you just scoring cheap points off him for not saying it more?

For the record, I deplore the Holocaust, the Armenian genocide, and the Black Death. Just in case I haven't mentioned any enough for some people.

Also for the record, I'm not endorsing what Rangel said earlier. I posted it only because I thought the closing observation was so obvious that it bordered on the absurd.

[bilmore]

Originally posted by Not Flinty
I'm just curious: Do you really think that Rangel wasn't outraged by 9/11, or are you just scoring cheap points off him for not saying it more.

The phrase "cheap points" was made for Mr. Rangel. WTF do you think he was doing today?

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally posted by ltl/fb
I wasn't outraged by people jumping from the WTC. I'd rather be sure I die quickly from impact than run the risk of suffocating or burning to death.

they weren't running risks fringe, they were dead, it was just a queston of how. Stern proposed every TV show should start with film of the jets hitting- that way we keep focus.

the prisoner shit is fucked, and people should do time, but for us to get back to feeling like we are the bad country, fuck no.

[bilmore]

Originally posted by Hank Chinaski
the prisoner shit is fucked, and people should do time, but for us to get back to feeling like we are the bad country, fuck no.

But it's okay if it's an election strategy. It'd be worth ANYTHING to get that horrid Bush out of there and put our man Kerry in. ANYTHING.

[Not Flinty]

Originally posted by bilmore
The phrase "cheap points" was made for Mr. Rangel. WTF do you think he was doing today?

If you're saying that you're stooping to his level, OK then.

[bilmore]

Originally posted by Not Flinty
If you're saying that you're stooping to his level, OK then.

Nice try. When I said that he's now expressed more outrage over panties on a guy's head than he did over 9/11, I wasn't "scoring points", like you tried here with cute lines. I was pointing out that his BS fake outrage, like I've seen from so many here, has nothing to do with any particular sense of offence for what was actually done to people, and everything to do with a pounce for partisan purposes. Rumsfeld should quit over this? Show me a pic of him holding a leash, or show me proof that he somehow encouraged this, or prove to me that he was actively involved in a coverup.

The pure, unadulterated horror I've seen expressed here and elsewhere over this is a laugh. Worse things happen every day in our prisons - hell, these were done mostly by people who were prison guards in civilian life, so you know where the root of the problem lies - but does that matter to you? Nope - this is merely a tool in the election campaign. It's an expression of moral vacuousness to only cry "evil" when it serves your own purposes. The greatest joke of all is watching people decry what this does to our image when you know that the only reaction they have to that image being hurt is glee.

[bilmore]

Right or wrong?
------------------------------------------------------------------
State: Purge felon voters on list

State officials order local elections supervisors to begin purging voter rolls of felons who don't have the right to vote. The measure may affect as many as 40,000 voters.

BY GARY FINEOUT
gfineout@herald.com


TALLAHASSEE - Six months before a presidential election that is again expected to be decided by a narrow margin in Florida, state officials ordered local election supervisors Wednesday to begin purging voter rolls of felons -- a move that may take as many as 40,000 people off the rolls, many of them likely to be black Democrats.

The state Division of Elections is turning the list over to local election supervisors in all 67 counties, and has ordered them to make sure to remove any felons whose voting rights have not been restored. The state says a preliminary check shows as many as 40,000 former felons are still registered to vote.

''As part of our quality assurance testing, felon and clemency information was run against a copy of the current voter registration database and has identified over 40,000 potential felon matches statewide,'' wrote Ed Kast, director of the state Division of Elections, in a memo sent out to election supervisors on Wednesday.

The issue of felon voting became controversial after the contested 2000 presidential election, when critics said Florida used out-of-state lists to purge former felons, taking voting rights away from people who had committed crimes outside the state but had had their voting rights restored in those other states.
(snip/...)

http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/news/8600742.htm
(Free registration may be required)

[Not Flinty]

Originally posted by bilmore
Nice try. When I said that he's now expressed more outrage over panties on a guy's head than he did over 9/11, I wasn't "scoring points", like you tried here with cute lines. I was pointing out that his BS fake outrage, like I've seen from so many here, has nothing to do with any particular sense of offence for what was actually done to people, and everything to do with a pounce for partisan purposes. Rumsfeld should quit over this? Show me a pic of him holding a leash, or show me proof that he somehow encouraged this, or prove to me that he was actively involved in a coverup.

The pure, unadulterated horror I've seen expressed here and elsewhere over this is a laugh. Worse things happen every day in our prisons - hell, these were done mostly by people who were prison guards in civilian life, so you know where the root of the problem lies - but does that matter to you? Nope - this is merely a tool in the election campaign. It's an expression of moral vacuousness to only cry "evil" when it serves your own purposes. The greatest joke of all is watching people decry what this does to our image when you know that the only reaction they have to that image being hurt is glee.

1. As I tried to say above, you and I agree about Rangel's posturing.

2. You are the one who introduced 9/11 here, and I was calling you on it. You could say that Rangel is a pompous blowhard without suggesting that he wasn't outraged by 9/11.

3. I think that Rumsfeld has presided over a DoD that scorns international law, and those chickens are coming home to roost. But I also don't hold him or Bush responsible for what happened to those prisoners.

4. I haven't been expressing pure, unadulterated horror (nor did you suggest otherwise), but I also don't think those pictures are a laugh.

5. This is not merely a tool in the election campaign. First and foremost, it is a catastrophe for our standing in the rest of the world. It complicates that reconstruction of Iraq, and it benefits Al Qaeda far more than the complaints by Democrats we were discussing last week.

6. Who's gleeful here? Less?

[Shape Shifter]

Originally posted by bilmore
But it's okay if it's an election strategy. It'd be worth ANYTHING to get that horrid Bush out of there and put our man Kerry in. ANYTHING.

I can't believe I didn't see this before. It is all so clear now. The Administration DOES have a strategy.

[Replaced_Texan]

Originally posted by bilmore
The pure, unadulterated horror I've seen expressed here and elsewhere over this is a laugh.

The Administration doesn't seem to think it's a laugh. I can't recall an actual apology from this President about anything else, and he's been called to apologize for a lot. He seems to survive politically fairly well without caving to such demands. I think he's genuinely outraged.

I think it goes back to what SAM said about American Exceptionalism and the myth that We Don't Do That.

[Mmmm, Burger (C.J.)]

Originally posted by Replaced_Texan
The Administration doesn't seem to think it's a laugh.

I don't think that was bilmore's point. Rather, he (and I tend to agree) is troubled by the use of this unfortunate, if not detestable, episode to advance a broader anti-war agenda. Impeach Rumsfeld (Rangel)? Fire him (Kerry)? Come on. THe person at the top of the chain of command to which the treatment could be attributed has already been relieved of her duties. This isn't who ordered teh code red here. We know that, and it wasn't rumsfeld.

The reason to fire rummy is because he didn't tell bush about the problem before it showed up on the front of the paper.