All Hank, all the time.

[sgtclub]

Originally posted by Sidd Finch
Please identify instances in which the UN has occupied a country for the purpose of nation-building. That seems contrary to the basic elements of the UN Charter as far as I know.

And please identify instances of successful nation-building that followed an invasion. (And if you name Iraq, I'll laugh at you...)

How about recent examples of Haiti and Kosovo?

Successful nation building includes Germany and Japan post WWII.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally posted by sgtclub
Successful nation building includes Germany and Japan post WWII.

Germany and Japan were well-functioning industrial nations before World War II. They needed quite a bit of reconstruction, and they needed new governments to replace the wartime regimes, but neither is really an example of nation building in the way we talk about it today.

[Spanky]

Originally posted by sgtclub
How about recent examples of Haiti and Kosovo?

Successful nation building includes Germany and Japan post WWII.

Bosnia and East Timor

[taxwonk]

Originally posted by Sidd Finch
Slave's response may have been over the top, but that's Slave. I care more about what real people are actually demanding as a political concession than about the rantings of my imaginary internet friends (however close to my heart they may be).

The situation you outline for orthodox jews is fairly common, though maybe not as explicit -- abortion or divorce or whatever may be perfectly legal for someone, but actually taking advantage of that will lead to being ostracized. That's a social decision, not a legal one. (And personally, I think the earlier you get ostracized from a comunity such as that, the better off you are).

I suspect that this won't work for those who advocate sharia, though, because sharia as I understand it involved punishments that would be considered crimes in non-sharia courts.

That is also going on today. There are more than a few case of "honor killings" of deflowered daughters or disobedient wives in the U.S. It's even more prevalent in countries like Mexico and Brazil. In other words, the problems with honoring Sharia aren't limited to that particular cultural system.

[Penske_Account]

Originally posted by Tyrone Slothrop
Don't be retarded.

What's interesting to me here, is that as everyone knows, and certainly you more than most, given our correspondence, you are close minded, sympathetic to facism, and racism, and a classist elitist greedy oppressor of the poor and minorities and really anyone disenfranchised in our society or the world. I on the other hand are progressive and open minded and rightously against everything I am so immorally for. And yet, despite these differences, when I relay a story, where Senator Allen used a word that has some common connotation, yet otoh, has gained some offensiveness in our modern day society, you respond essentially that anyone elses perceptions or sensibilities are meaningless to you, as long as your use is not directed to offend them.

And you are the asshole.

Enough. I've spent too much time talking to you about nothing, something we both know I no longer do.

[Mmmm, Burger (C.J.)]

Originally posted by taxwonk
That's possible. I think that, with the exception of Kim Jong Il, the Eastern governments are more pragmatic, though. And remember, more things than rockets go boom.

Sure, but a pyre results only when pragmatism has gone out the window.

The reason it wouldn't happen is because north korea would be wiped out too quickly for anything to spread further.

[Mmmm, Burger (C.J.)]

Originally posted by Tyrone Slothrop
Germany and Japan were well-functioning industrial nations before World War II.

So was Iraq, in many of the same ways.

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally posted by ltl/fb


eta effectiveness of divorce. I don't do marriage, or divorce, or children, and don't have any plans to in the foreseeable future, so I don't know what all one has to do to get married; for some reason I'm thinking that at least in some states the civil stuff is limited or unnecessary if the marriage is performed according to religious rites. Every marriage I've been much involved with, the officiant was a judge. I have been to church weddings, but I wasn't involved in the planning/setting up.

With really seriously Jewish, to get a divorce the man must give the women permission (a get or let?), anyway she can't be divorced w/o it and often the guy will require a bribe. But i think that is just to be seen as divorced in the eyes of the religion. I think she could go to Court and get it done it's just that then no other Orthodox guy would touch her bewigged ass.

[taxwonk]

Originally posted by Sidd Finch
I think what you are advocating is pouring oil on that particular flame.

As for Americans being killed -- you ain't seen nothing yet. How many Americans did Hezbollah kill in Beirut? How much worse will it be if we were to try occupying the entire country?

You are going down the neo-con road here, where you believe that what we can accomplish is limited only by our "will", or our willingness to throw lives and money around. I disagree, and think that making Arabs and Israelis love each other is beyond our abilities (and will become more so if we invade and occupy).

Scary, ain't it? And it really makes me uncomfortable saying these things. However, the more I look at the problem the more intractable it gets. I don't like that this is the conclusion I've come to. I just can't find any other way around it and I don't think we can just let it work itself out.

It seems clear to me that the whole fuck-up traces back to the West's cut-and-run in the late 40s. That's what set me down the road of thiking about going back and fixing what we screwed up in the first place.

[Adder]

Originally posted by Spanky

I have never asked anyone to apologize. I have been saying it is in their interest to unequivocally denounce the terrorist acts. It would also be helpful if they said they will do whatever they can to help prevent another one without attaching any conditions to their assistance.

You expect them to act guilty because it is in their interests. You are probably right, but that doesn't mean that you can reasonable expect them to do so as many of them probably do not feel guilty.

But you are right, the timing of the request is absurd, and likely the content, although we don't know what it was.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally posted by Mmmm, Burger (C.J.)
So was Iraq, in many of the same ways.

Um, no.

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally posted by taxwonk
That is also going on today. There are more than a few case of "honor killings" of deflowered daughters or disobedient wives in the U.S. It's even more prevalent in countries like Mexico and Brazil. In other words, the problems with honoring Sharia aren't limited to that particular cultural system.

if this is some veiled threat let me admit right now i was lying with what I said I did to your sister, and Penske and Thurgreed together with her? That actually only happened once. Let her live?

[ltl/fb]

Originally posted by Hank Chinaski
With really seriously Jewish, to get a divorce the man must give the women permission (a get or let?), anyway she can't be divorced w/o it and often the guy will require a bribe. But i think that is just to be seen as divorced in the eyes of the religion. I think she could go to Court and get it done it's just that then no other Orthodox guy would touch her bewigged ass.

If H&W were in agreement about divorce, would they also have to go to court to get a divorce there if either wanted to marry someone else and not be bigamous?

[Adder]

Originally posted by taxwonk

It seems clear to me that the whole fuck-up traces back to the West's cut-and-run in the late 40s. That's what set me down the road of thiking about going back and fixing what we screwed up in the first place.

most of the cut and paste was done in 1919.

[Spanky]

Originally posted by Adder
You expect them to act guilty because it is in their interests.

I don't expect them to act guilty. I expect them to critisize the terrorist acts the way everyone else does (without qualifiers or demands). Actually, I don't expect anything, I just think such an act would be in everyones best interest, especially theirs.