Meet your new thread, same as the old thread.

[Atticus Grinch]

Originally posted by Hank Chinaski
Specialists. Trust them to do their speciality.

Except the other branches of government, that is?

I mean the spartans tortured and it wouldn't continue if it didn't help. do armies still pray to Bal?

You are what a Classics professor would call a fucktardus.

[Atticus Grinch]

Originally posted by Not Bob
Interestingly, I don't recall the Luftwaffe being charged with war crimes for the terror bombings of England in 1940 or the V-1 or V-2 programs, but I could be wrong.

Indeed, perhaps somewhere in a cave in Afghanistan is this generation's Wernher von Braun.

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally posted by Atticus Grinch
PB K-race: Stack up all the most embarrassing Gore quotes you can find, and we'll try to match them one-for-one with embarrassing Bush quotes. Rule: quote has to be in haec verba.

that is a good race, but not "embarasssing" quotes. I said "quotes that show a delusional self-worth that makes it extremmely important that the person never hold power." You should start stacking, because I don't think you beat this one.

[Greedy,Greedy,Greedy]

Originally posted by Hank Chinaski
that is a good race, but not "embarasssing" quotes. I said "quotes that show a delusional self-worth that makes it extremmely important that the person never hold power." You should start stacking, because I don't think you beat this one.

"Mission Accomplished"

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally posted by Atticus Grinch
Except the other branches of government, that is?

You never respond to this point, Hank. Apparently you trust government agents who want to torture people to exercise good discretion, but you don't trust other government agents to use good discretion about when to punish them. The only government actors whom you trust are the ones who want to torture people.

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally posted by Tyrone Slothrop
You never respond to this point, Hank. Apparently you trust government agents who want to torture people to exercise good discretion, but you don't trust other government agents to use good discretion about when to punish them. The only government actors whom you trust are the ones who want to torture people.

Atticus said "other branches" you say "other agents." i don't trust other branches, or at least one of the "other" branches because right now it is making arguments (similar to yours) that seem to be historically wrong. That same branch is also chasing political goals instead of doing what it deems best for the country, so no, i do not trust at least one branch.

I don't even know what you are asking, but if you can explain what you meant, i will consider whether i can opine.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally posted by Hank Chinaski
Atticus said "other branches" you say "other agents." i don't trust other branches, or at least one of the "other" branches because right now it is making arguments (similar to yours) that seem to be historically wrong. That same branch is also chasing political goals instead of doing what it deems best for the country, so no, i do not trust at least one branch.

I don't even know what you are asking, but if you can explain what you meant, i will consider whether i can opine.

You're right that Atticus and I are making different points. I find it odd that you think that the legislative branch is the only branch chasing political goals instead of doing what it deems best for the country -- presumably this wasn't true when the GOP Congress did the White House's bidding a few years ago -- but, whatever.

My point went to whether torture should be outlawed. If it is, and if the CIA (e.g.) tortures someone to find a suitcase nuke in Manhattan, then a government prosecutor will have to decide whether to bring charges. I trust that prosecutor to exercise his or her discretion, and I trust a judge and defense counsel to make sure it's exercised well. You guys don't.

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally posted by Tyrone Slothrop
You're right that Atticus and I are making different points. I find it odd that you think that the legislative branch is the only branch chasing political goals instead of doing what it deems best for the country -- presumably this wasn't true when the GOP Congress did the White House's bidding a few years ago -- but, whatever.

My point went to whether torture should be outlawed. If it is, and if the CIA (e.g.) tortures someone to find a suitcase nuke in Manhattan, then a government prosecutor will have to decide whether to bring charges. I trust that prosecutor to exercise his or her discretion, and I trust a judge and defense counsel to make sure it's exercised well. You guys don't.

if it is outlawed, why wouldn't they bring charges? de minimis torture?

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally posted by Hank Chinaski
if it is outlawed, why wouldn't they bring charges? de minimis torture?

Prosecutorial discretion.

[Not Bob]

Originally posted by SlaveNoMore
We tell other nations all the time that they cannot have nukes.

Hypocritical? You betcha.

Sound policy? Absolutely.

Eh. Maybe it is hypocritical in the abstract. It certainly is sound policy.

It's also something that's really been enforced more by the market, if you will. Countries without the resources (money and brains) to build nukes don't. Countries with those resources (South Africa, India, Israel, Pakistan, and apparently North Korea) manage to violate the treaty and justify the violation.

Originally posted by SlaveNoMore
The anti-American brigade - moving ever so slowly to the front of the Dem party - is so blind in their hatred if Bush that they ignore that the USA, while clearly not mistake-proof, also exerts its power with the utmost care and highest discipline.

Dude, McGovern lost, and hasn't been seen since. Even Jimmy Carter increased defense spending. The "anti-American brigade" you are talking about -- led by regular posters on Kos, I assume -- is nowhere near the levers of power. Who among the leading candidates for president do they support? Kuccinich? They certainly don't seem to like either Hillary or Obama.

And the other party has just as many anti-government blind haters as do the Democrats. "Charlton Heston is my president." "I love my country but I fear my government." "The ATF = jackbooted thugs."

Originally posted by SlaveNoMore
I actually trust our government - and most especially our military - to almost always use whatever force or action is necessary, and that is it. Of course there will be mistakes, but that is the unfortunate side effect of volume: it's a bitch being the policeman of the world.

I don't necessarily disagree with you here. I just think that the expansive positions taken by the Administration on what is torture and what the president's authority is are terribly wrong. And I don't blame the Joint Chiefs for any of that.

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally posted by Tyrone Slothrop
Prosecutorial discretion.

no. you guys keep alleging we misuse that. I don't want the burden.

[Gattigap]

It's a bit inside baseball, but still I found this WaPo article on the genesis and subsequent sputtering of the Fred Thompson campaign pretty interesting. It's not really an epitaph, but it feels like one, and it's odd to be seeing it a month and a half before the first caucus.

Gattigap

[Gattigap]

Originally posted by Not Bob
Dude, McGovern lost, and hasn't been seen since. Even Jimmy Carter increased defense spending. The "anti-American brigade" you are talking about -- led by regular posters on Kos, I assume -- is nowhere near the levers of power. Who among the leading candidates for president do they support? Kuccinich? They certainly don't seem to like either Hillary or Obama.

Don't forget, NotBob, that Slave's recent history is to live in hippie-dippie urban enclaves where the bras burn, the dope is dope, and the walk to the financial district invariably takes him past professional panhandlers. He chooses these (to a conservative) depressing venues because, of course, that's where the hot chicks are -- but it unfortunately colors his worldview a bit. After all, reports are that McGovern became one of the panhandlers.

Gattigap

[Greedy,Greedy,Greedy]

Originally posted by Not Bob
And the other party has just as many anti-government blind haters as do the Democrats. "Charlton Heston is my president." "I love my country but I fear my government." "The ATF = jackbooted thugs."

Of course, the difference is that the Republicans actually let their crackpots at the controls. The gun-nuts and the Christian right wear holes in the carpets of the White House - did Clinton ever have Louis Farakhan over for tea and footsie?

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally posted by Hank Chinaski
no. you guys keep alleging we misuse that.

So if we allege you misuse torture, you'll drop that too? Cool.