Offering constructive criticism to the social cripples in our midst since early 2005.

[Penske_Account]

Originally posted by sgtclub
I read today that Rove learned about Plame from Novak. He did not use classified access, probably becuase the information was not classified.

I'm prepared to call for Rove's ouster if the facts support it. They simply don't at this point.

2.

[Gattigap]

Originally posted by sgtclub
I read today that Rove learned about Plame from Novak.

Not precisely. Apparently, Rove learned it earlier, and confirmed it for Novak.

• The lawyer, who has knowledge of the conversations between Rove and prosecutors, said President Bush's deputy chief of staff has told investigators that he first learned about the operative from a journalist and that he later learned her name from Novak.
  
  Rove has said he does not recall who the journalist was who first told him that Wilson's wife worked for the CIA, or when the conversation occurred, the lawyer said.
  
  ...
  
  The new account means that Rove talked to both of the journalists who are known to have published original accounts about Plame. Rove's representatives have said that he mentioned the issue in the most general terms and did not name Plame. Democrats say he was trying to fuel stories that would punish an administration critic.
  
  The lawyer said Novak had telephoned Rove to discuss another column, about Frances Fragos Townsend, who had been named deputy national security adviser for terrorism in May 2003. That column ran in Novak's home paper, the Chicago Sun-Times, on July 10, 2003, under the headline "Bush sets himself up for another embarrassment."
  
  At the end of that 15- or 20-minute call, according to the lawyer, Novak said he had learned that Wilson's wife worked for the CIA.
  
  "I heard that, too," Rove replied, according to the lawyer, confirming the Times account.

[Replaced_Texan]

Originally posted by Gattigap
Not precisely. Apparently, Rove learned it earlier, and confirmed it for Novak.

• The lawyer, who has knowledge of the conversations between Rove and prosecutors, said President Bush's deputy chief of staff has told investigators that he first learned about the operative from a journalist and that he later learned her name from Novak.
  
  Rove has said he does not recall who the journalist was who first told him that Wilson's wife worked for the CIA, or when the conversation occurred, the lawyer said.
  
  ...
  
  The new account means that Rove talked to both of the journalists who are known to have published original accounts about Plame. Rove's representatives have said that he mentioned the issue in the most general terms and did not name Plame. Democrats say he was trying to fuel stories that would punish an administration critic.
  
  The lawyer said Novak had telephoned Rove to discuss another column, about Frances Fragos Townsend, who had been named deputy national security adviser for terrorism in May 2003. That column ran in Novak's home paper, the Chicago Sun-Times, on July 10, 2003, under the headline "Bush sets himself up for another embarrassment."
  
  At the end of that 15- or 20-minute call, according to the lawyer, Novak said he had learned that Wilson's wife worked for the CIA.
  
  "I heard that, too," Rove replied, according to the lawyer, confirming the Times account.

What is it with all these leaks from the grand jury? Goddamnit Fitzgerald, there's another leak to plug. You're never going to make it back to Chicago to appeal that drug case properly. Congress is so disappointed.

[Penske_Account]

Originally posted by Gattigap
Not precisely. Apparently, Rove learned it earlier, and confirmed it for Novak.

• The lawyer, who has knowledge of the conversations between Rove and prosecutors, said President Bush's deputy chief of staff has told investigators that he first learned about the operative from a journalist and that he later learned her name from Novak.
  
  Rove has said he does not recall who the journalist was who first told him that Wilson's wife worked for the CIA, or when the conversation occurred, the lawyer said.
  
  ...
  
  The new account means that Rove talked to both of the journalists who are known to have published original accounts about Plame. Rove's representatives have said that he mentioned the issue in the most general terms and did not name Plame. Democrats say he was trying to fuel stories that would punish an administration critic.
  
  The lawyer said Novak had telephoned Rove to discuss another column, about Frances Fragos Townsend, who had been named deputy national security adviser for terrorism in May 2003. That column ran in Novak's home paper, the Chicago Sun-Times, on July 10, 2003, under the headline "Bush sets himself up for another embarrassment."
  
  At the end of that 15- or 20-minute call, according to the lawyer, Novak said he had learned that Wilson's wife worked for the CIA.
  
  "I heard that, too," Rove replied, according to the lawyer, confirming the Times account.

I am sensing that, for better or worse, the Rove story will die before Rehnquist breathes his last.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally posted by Replaced_Texan
What is it with all these leaks from the grand jury? Goddamnit Fitzgerald, there's another leak to plug. You're never going to make it back to Chicago to appeal that drug case properly. Congress is so disappointed.

Why do you think the leaks are coming from the prosecution instead of the various defense lawyers? Fitzgerald has been running a tight ship up until now, and the article Gatti linked to makes perfect sense if you assume the lawyer who was the source is Rove's lawyer.

[Mmmm, Burger (C.J.)]

Originally posted by sgtclub
And some hack in the PTO makes a judgment call as to what is offensive?

It's subject to judicial review, where some hack makes another judgment call.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally posted by Mmmm, Burger (C.J.)
It's subject to judicial review, where some hack makes another judgment call.

Sounds kind of like an eminent domain proceeding.

[Mmmm, Burger (C.J.)]

Originally posted by Replaced_Texan
What is it with all these leaks from the grand jury? Goddamnit Fitzgerald, there's another leak to plug. You're never going to make it back to Chicago to appeal that drug case properly. Congress is so disappointed.

I guess it's 2 to ty, but of course this leak is from Rove--he's got another spin, which is he heard it from Novak. Presumably it took until now to confirm with Novak that that's what he told the grand jury as well.

[Bad_Rich_Chic]

Originally posted by Penske_Account
2.

Dissent. Whether he violated the statute or outed her, knowingly or not, he almost certainly violated his security clearance by talking to reporters about her status at all (even just confirming what they already knew or discussing what he had heard from other reporters and therefore thought was already public), and demonstrated extremely poor judgment in permitting this situation to arise. On the bad judgment point alone he should go. There really should be zero tolerance for these sorts of fuck ups at his level of responsibility in the admin.

I really hope that W's vaunted loyalty doesn't cause him to mess this up and try to keep him, but I'm not confident. If Rove wants what's good for the admin, he'll resign before he's under even more of a cloud.

More interesting is the question of who is the other leak? At best you have one leak and one moron who validated the leak through stupidity, at worst you have a conspiracy of leaks, which could be very, very damaging for an admin trying to conduct what is at heart a covert war.

That said, and completely irrelevant to the points above, Wilson sure is a distasteful little shit.

[sgtclub]

Originally posted by Mmmm, Burger (C.J.)
It's subject to judicial review, where some hack makes another judgment call.

And what is the rationale for not offering protection for "offensive" marks? We protect all sorts of "offensive" material and speach.

[sgtclub]

Originally posted by Bad_Rich_Chic
Dissent. Whether he violated the statute or outed her, knowingly or not, he almost certainly violated his security clearance by talking to reporters about her status at all (even just confirming what they already knew or discussing what he had heard from other reporters and therefore thought was already public), and demonstrated extremely poor judgment in permitting this situation to arise.

Her status wasn't classified, so how did he violate his clearance?

[Penske_Account]

Originally posted by Bad_Rich_Chic
. If Rove wants what's good for the admin, he'll resign before he's under even more of a cloud.
.

AGREED. 2. CONCUR. Sadly, much as neither side of the aisle produces statesman anymore (since Reagan), the people the pols surround themselves with have no sense of principle or higher duty. I don't know how the Baby Jesus feels about it, but I weep.

Originally posted by Bad_Rich_Chic

That said, and completely irrelevant to the points above, Wilson sure is a distasteful little shit.

AGREED. 2. CONCUR. Hopefully the two Plames can crawl back under whatever rock they came out from under. Good riddance.

[Penske_Account]

Originally posted by sgtclub
We protect all sorts of "offensive" material and speach.

Call Howard Stern and let him know all is forgiven.

[Gattigap]

Originally posted by sgtclub
And what is the rationale for not offering protection for "offensive" marks? We protect all sorts of "offensive" material and speach.

You'd have to ask the authors of the Lanham Act, but I'd imagine that as a matter of public policy they'd point to a distinction between restricting the government's ability to limit offensive speech versus the government offering affirmative rights to enable people to profit from it.

[Penske_Account]

Originally posted by Gattigap
You'd have to ask the authors of the Lanham Act, but I'd imagine that as a matter of public policy they'd point to a distinction between restricting the government's ability to limit offensive speech versus the government offering affirmative rights to enable people to profit from it.

[family feud cheer] Good answer! good answer![/family feud cheer].

It's posts like this that illustrate why you make the big Penskebucks.