Keeping it civil instead of returning to our dark ways

[sgtclub]

Originally posted by Tyrone Slothrop
I'm getting kinda tired of trying to talk about this with you, club and Slave, since none of you are actually willing to say anything. Slave posted a cartoon that he seemed to think was racist. I don't see it. None of you apparently have the ability or inclination to explain why it's racist. Is it possible to draw a combination of a parrot and Dr. Rice that's not offensive, or is just that parrot?Since answering that quesiton is beyond your powers, I'm not going to hold my breath for you to explain what just "destroys my whole position," or even what you think my position is.

The parrot cartoon is not racist. Its demeaning, but not racist. The one I posted is racist.

[sgtclub]

WASHINGTON - Pakistan's military has been so effective in pressuring al-Qaida leaders hiding in the tribal region of western Pakistan that Osama bin Laden (news - web sites) and his top deputies no longer are able to direct terrorist operations, a senior American commander said Thursday.


"They are living in the remotest areas of the world without any communications — other than courier — with the outside world or their people and unable to orchestrate or provide command and control over a terrorist network," said Lt. Gen. Lance Smith, deputy commander of Central Command.


"They are basically on the run and unable to really conduct operations except, in the very long term, provide vision and guidance as Osama bin Laden does when he provides one of those tapes," he added, alluding to a bin Laden video tape released three weeks ago.

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=stor...en_1&printer=1

[sgtclub]

Will I still be here when the east coasters roll in?

[Say_hello_for_me]

Originally posted by sgtclub
Will I still be here when the east coasters roll in?

Dancing with the dozens yesterday, huh? You look it. Get some sleep and let Admiral O take em from here. Plus, its Friday and we get to talk dirty to each other on Fridays.

OK, so which of you motherfucking jackasses is up and what do you want to argue about?

[Say_hello_for_me]

From a WaPo article with a bit of a smarmy tone today:

>>The president kissed only Rice's right cheek, and in the case of Spellings, planted a single kiss just off-center of the lips. He did not execute the double buss that is used as a greeting throughout much of Europe, organized crime and the fashion industry. The double buss is not based on gender or age. In some ways it is a perfect greeting: intimate but not sexual, androgynous but warm. <<

I don't know about this "just off-center of the lips" thing, as it does seem a bit too familiar for business or state. However, the "right cheek" thing plays well in a pretty large part of America. Its pretty common for friends and family in Chicago.

And I remember that its how teenagers often greet each other in Chile'. Basically, everybody kisses the girls on the cheek (even the girls), but boys don't kiss boys.

Is this uncommon in your experience, or is it just uncommon in a professional/state setting?

Hello

[Dave]

Proof Positive that Michigan is really a Red State:

Keeping library books too long could soon land some readers in jail.

Next step, the death penalty, which I think already exists for jaywalkers and those who commit federal offenses.

[sebastian_dangerfield]

Originally posted by Say_hello_for_me

OK, so which of you motherfucking jackasses is up and what do you want to argue about?

This is not an argument - its an observation.

I think Arlen Specter is actually acting as a lightning rod for the heat Jesus Lunatics will throw at Bush for promoting judges too moderate for the Jesus Loons' tastes. Lemme explain... Most GOPers I know (and I know a lot) laugh off the fundamentalists as rubes. When I say "What if the fundamentalists get a pro life hjudge on the bench?" they say "That won't happen, you naive fool, no one's foolish enough to fuck with Roe and put the party's deathlock on leadership in jeopardy... we're just paying lip service to the religious crazies because we need their votes." Now, before the election, Bush and Specter met many times, and Bush knew Specter would be getting the chairmanship of the judiciary committee if he got re-elected. Bush could have lobbied against Arlen and in favor of Arlen's challenger in the GOP primary, a right wing lunatic named Pat Toomey. Toomey almost beat Arlen in that primary. An endorsement of Toomey would also have helped Bush's chances with Jesus Crazies and right wingers in PA. However, Bush shocked the PA GOP establishment by instead backing Arlen, quite strongly.

My thinking is that Bush and Arlen talked candidly and Bush said "look, I need you to take the heat when I don't get any pro-life judges on the Court." I need to make you the boogieman so the Jesus Crazies won't think I hoodwinked them. Arlen of course agreed. Now Arlen is playing his part. When we wind up with another Souter on the Court during Bush's term, the fanatical fundamentalists will blame Arlen and the Democrats.

Bush and Cheney know that overturning Roe would create huge problems for the GOP. Thats the last thing he wants on his watch. He needs Arlen there to make sure that doesn't happen. You didn't hear Bush make any comments in responses to the Arlen controversy, did you? Even Bush's bitch boy Frist has now backed Arlen.

[Dave]

Originally posted by sebastian_dangerfield
Bush and Cheney know that overturning Roe would create huge problems for the GOP. Thats the last thing he wants on his watch.

Don't you mean Rove and Cheney?

Interesting theory. Add in the fact that Specter is 74, safe for another 6 years and may not care to challenge Strom Thurmond's records, and you may have something there.

[Replaced_Texan]

Originally posted by Say_hello_for_me
From a WaPo article with a bit of a smarmy tone today:

>>The president kissed only Rice's right cheek, and in the case of Spellings, planted a single kiss just off-center of the lips. He did not execute the double buss that is used as a greeting throughout much of Europe, organized crime and the fashion industry. The double buss is not based on gender or age. In some ways it is a perfect greeting: intimate but not sexual, androgynous but warm. <<

I don't know about this "just off-center of the lips" thing, as it does seem a bit too familiar for business or state. However, the "right cheek" thing plays well in a pretty large part of America. Its pretty common for friends and family in Chicago.

And I remember that its how teenagers often greet each other in Chile'. Basically, everybody kisses the girls on the cheek (even the girls), but boys don't kiss boys.

Is this uncommon in your experience, or is it just uncommon in a professional/state setting?

Hello

For reference:

[Replaced_Texan]

Originally posted by sebastian_dangerfield
Bush could have lobbied against Arlen and in favor of Arlen's challenger in the GOP primary, a right wing lunatic named Pat Toomey. Toomey almost beat Arlen in that primary. An endorsement of Toomey would also have helped Bush's chances with Jesus Crazies and right wingers in PA. However, Bush shocked the PA GOP establishment by instead backing Arlen, quite strongly.

Question: Would Bush have endorsed Specter over Toomey because he knew that otherwise the GOP would lose that senate seat? My understanding that the moderate Specter barely won PA. A Jesus freak may not have had a chance at all and on the balance Specter was better for Bush than Hoeffel.

[sebastian_dangerfield]

Originally posted by Dave
Don't you mean Rove and Cheney?

Interesting theory. Add in the fact that Specter is 74, safe for another 6 years and may not care to challenge Strom Thurmond's records, and you may have something there.

I know a lot of GOP operatives (In fact, I'll be dining with a GOP state lobbyist on Sat nite). What I'm told is that the trick is to keep the Jesus Nuts' votes without losing the moderate GOP voters. There's a truce between the fiscal conservatives and social conservatives which is very hard to hold within the party. The GOP is struggling to find just how right wing they can sound, while actually enacting none of the right wing social legislation measures. The GOP can fuck with gay marriage all they like because gays are not a huge voting block for them. Women, and moderate voters who are voting for them solely on issue of defense and taxes, however, are a HUGE voting block. The GOP knows that if it flips Roe, it will lose a massive number of moderates. So its balancing how it can appear to be fighting Roe tooth and nail while at the same time making sure Roe remains law of the land. It needs strawmen like Arlen to both act as lightning rods for Jesus Nuts' criticism, as well as placate the moderates who fear the GOP is beholden to too many "trailer folk."

I personally think the GOP will be able to keep its tent together because who else can the fundamentalists vote for? And who else can the blue staters who feel they're overtaxed vote for? It'll always have the well-off and the fundamentalists, and I don't see how the democrats can ever beat that combination.

If the democrats really want to win the next election, they should take steps to allow the craziest right wing GOP loons to actually overturn Roe. That would mobilize the female vote they're losing.

[sebastian_dangerfield]

Originally posted by Replaced_Texan
Question: Would Bush have endorsed Specter over Toomey because he knew that otherwise the GOP would lose that senate seat? My understanding that the moderate Specter barely won PA. A Jesus freak may not have had a chance at all and on the balance Specter was better for Bush than Hoeffel.

Specter did not kill Hoeffel, but he didn't eek out a win either. I'm pretty sure it was a solid victory for Arlen.

I think either Toomey or Specter would have beaten Hoeffel. Hoeffel was a Kerry-like candidate. No message; nobody knew anything about what he stood for. Not terribly charismatic.

I think Bush figured Arlen would win, and decided that the best thing to do would be trade support for Arlen's agreement to play ball with the administration in the next term. Arlen might be the smartest cagiest bastard in the senate. If there's one man who can craft judicial confirmation hearings in such a way to both protect Roe and make it seem like the GOP is pushing pro-life judges, its Arlen. Arlen knows where everybody's bodies are buried and is a master manipulator. Shit, he sold the single bullet theory on the Kennedy Assasination to the Warren Commission.

Bush needed a smart bastard in the judiciary chairmanship. A dipshit like Cronyn might get a crazy bible thumper on the Court. Overturing Roe is political suicide. The Bush admin is building a dynasty - they aren't going to chuck it all to placate some religious nuts.

[Say_hello_for_me]

Originally posted by sebastian_dangerfield

If the democrats really want to win the next election, they should take steps to allow the craziest right wing GOP loons to actually overturn Roe. That would mobilize the female vote they're losing.

You keep saying this, but there is no evidence that its true. 3-1 for single issue voters. 3-1 for single issue voters. 3-1 for single issue voters. No matter how many times you say otherwise, that 3 is for lifers and the 1 is for choicers. Now, if you were sitting in my circle and telling me your vote would change, I'd worry.

But you (and many/most others here) haven't recently shown much understanding of what the majority of Americans care about. I'm not sure why you'd think your insight into voting today is any more accurate than yesterday, last week or last month.

As it is, I've previously listed areas where the Dems can pick up the high ground. If overturning Roe were going to be so bad for the Reps, you'd think the Dems would keep quiet and give the Reps enough rope to hang themselves. Instead, all I'm hearing is the old tactic of making noise and trying to fool your enemy into believing you have 3 times as many troops as you do. The fact is, its just you and a Democratic bugle and drum corps, but your millions of voters simply don't care. At least, not so long as they can go to California or New York to have an abortion when they need one. 8 years. Tops.

Hello

[Did you just call me Coltrane?]

Originally posted by Say_hello_for_me
You keep saying this, but there is no evidence that its true. 3-1 for single issue voters. 3-1 for single issue voters. 3-1 for single issue voters. No matter how many times you say otherwise, that 3 is for lifers and the 1 is for choicers. Now, if you were sitting in my circle and telling me your vote would change, I'd worry.

Hello

Have you ever met a woman? Ever?

[soup sandwich]

Originally posted by Say_hello_for_me
3-1 for single issue voters. No matter how many times you say otherwise, that 3 is for lifers and the 1 is for choicers.

I think if Roe were overturned this ratio would change. You?