Offering constructive criticism to the social cripples in our midst since early 2005.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Incidentally, this letter from Wilson to two Senators clears up many of charges Slave and others have made against him.

[Mmmm, Burger (C.J.)]

Originally posted by Tyrone Slothrop
Incidentally, this letter from Wilson to two Senators clears up many of charges Slave and others have made against him.

A convicted liar can't clear up any of those charges in his own letter.

(hi Penske!)

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally posted by Mmmm, Burger (C.J.)
A convicted liar can't clear up any of those charges in his own letter.

(hi Penske!)

If she floats, she's a witch! And if she sinks, she's not a witch!


eta:

OK, it's just a little more complicated that that.

Hanging my head in geek shame now. I say Burger is this board's Bedevere.

[Penske_Account]

Originally posted by ltl/fb
I don't get that feeling, but OK.

You lie! You know you want to have dinner with me!

[Spanky]

Originally posted by Tyrone Slothrop
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Tyrone Slothrop
See, I read it and concluded that the author is in favor of spreading democracy, but believes that the U.S. has pursued specific policies that are counterproductive to that end. I feel that way, as does Sullivan.

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Maybe we're talking past each other, but I don't understand how it's necessarily ignorant, absurd or bigoted to observe that people in Yemen seem to care about other things -- e.g., Arab nationalism, or their religious beliefs -- more than democracy. Is it bigoted to point out that the revolution in Iran did more to advance Islam than democracy? Of course not. Do you think that was just bad luck? Because the hard-line candidate favored by the mullahs just won the last election.

We are talking past eachother: "the Arab world wants democracy as much as they want a hole in the head". I just don't see you defending this statement. I think it is indefensible.

Anyway, more importantly - why doesn't your Avatar move anymore.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally posted by Spanky
We are talking past eachother: "the Arab world wants democracy as much as they want a hole in the head". I just don't see you defending this statement. I think it is indefensible.

Someone who is actually in Yemen is reporting that that is what he or she sees. You leap to the conclusion that he or she does not think Arabs should aspire to democracy -- a notion completely unsupported by his or her writing -- and you dismiss as "indefensible" the notion that what Yemenis actually think and do might be different from what you think they ought to be aspiring to. This sort of pie-in-the-sky, rose-colored wishful thinking is exactly what got us into trouble in Iraq -- maybe you've noticed already that the Iraqis to whom we were bringing democracy were somewhat less grateful than we expected? -- and is a real threat to the actual project of making the world a better place. The road to hell is paved with good intentions.

Anyway, more importantly - why doesn't your Avatar move anymore.

It's moving for me. Get yourself a frappucino.

[Penske_Account]

Originally posted by ironweed
Exactly. Especially when Penske is not around to act as the voice of moderation.

Yes, I am like a giant Tums for this place. I keep the acidity down.

Originally posted by ironweed

P.S. - Trust me, drinks don't help.

I don't even think we talked politics, so much.

[SlaveNoMore]

sebastian_dangerfield
Every person I've met here has been polite, charming and normal.

Hence why you blew me off last time in NY?

Jagoff.

[SlaveNoMore]

Tyrone Slothrop
Incidentally, this letter from Wilson to two Senators clears up many of charges Slave and others have made against him.

So Wilson repeatedly lies, the Bi-partisan commission calls him out on it, and then he sends them a letter claiming their assertions were wrong.

Yawn.

The sad thing is that this fucker has now been given the media spotlight 3 years in a row.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally posted by SlaveNoMore
So Wilson repeatedly lies, the Bi-partisan commission calls him out on it, and then he sends them a letter claiming their assertions were wrong.

If you had an open mind about any of this and wanted to take the five minutes to read his letter, you would see that it's not like that. (For starters, he's not complaining about what "bi-partisan commission" said -- the hack job on him was the work of Senators Roberts, Bond, and Hatch, all Republicans, and it was immediately clear that they were taking him down for the most partisan of reasons.)

Slave, tell me how Karl Rove knew within a couple of days of Novak's original piece -- you know, when Rove was talking to reporters, according to his attorney -- that Wilson was a partisan hack? Was there anything besides the fact that he wrote an op-ed in the New York Times disagreeing with the administration, or is that enough in your book to justify the smearing of him and his wife that followed?

[Penske_Account]

Originally posted by sgtclub
But then again, I believe that Clinton raped Juanita, so you be the judge.

2. PotD.

[Spanky]

Originally posted by Tyrone Slothrop
Someone who is actually in Yemen is reporting that that is what he or she sees. You leap to the conclusion that he or she does not think Arabs should aspire to democracy -- a notion completely unsupported by his or her writing -- and you dismiss as "indefensible" the notion that what Yemenis actually think and do might be different from what you think they ought to be aspiring to. This sort of pie-in-the-sky, rose-colored wishful thinking is exactly what got us into trouble in Iraq -- maybe you've noticed already that the Iraqis to whom we were bringing democracy were somewhat less grateful than we expected? -- and is a real threat to the actual project of making the world a better place. The road to hell is paved with good intentions.



It's moving for me. Get yourself a frappucino.

When someone says that Arabs want democracy about as much as they want a hole in the head that leads me to believe that they don't think democracy is really in the cards right now or in the near future. Call me crazy.

I never said it was indefensible that Yemenis were not aspring to what I thought they should be aspiring to. I never said they should aspire to anything. I just said that quote was indensible. How many time do I have to use the quote before you read it? The quote I was using talked about "Arabs". You are aware that there is a distinction between Arabs and Yeminis.

The Iraqis may not be that grateful but that is besides the point. The problem in Iraq is not that the Arabs (and Kurds) don't want democracy, it is that they don't think the United States really intends to bring democracy. That is a huge distinction.

I think most Arabs want democracy and I have never seen any sort of evidence that they don't. Every time a real election is held, from Morocco, to Alergia, to Iraq to Kuwait the turnout is amazing. So when she says - Arabs want democracy as much as they want a hole in their head - she is just flat wrong - and all the evidence points to the fact that she is wrong. I am pretty sure most Yemenis want democracy, but even if it were true that they did not, extrapolating that all Arabs don't want Democracy from her experience in Yemen is like me saying most Americans are very tolerant of Homosexuals after spending the weekend in San Francisco.

How can you defend the statement: "Arabs want democracy about as much as they want a hole in the head".

[Penske_Account]

Originally posted by Did you just call me Coltrane?
2. Almost too normal.

You ducked me when I was in Chicago, where men in skirts are not normal.

[Penske_Account]

Originally posted by Mmmm, Burger (C.J.)
A convicted liar can't clear up any of those charges in his own letter.

(hi Penske!)

Come on, puuuuuuuhleeeeeeeeeeeze! give me a break Ty.

[sebastian_dangerfield]

Originally posted by SlaveNoMore
Hence why you blew me off last time in NY?

Jagoff.

Jagoff? You're from Pittsburgh? Jesus, she's right. I must never pay any attention to anyone else's personal facts.

But now I know where you get your politics...