General discussion - Mom and Dad Esq.

Greedy did the right thing- its not just about anorexia (IMHO), but not embracing the value system that defines girls by their physical beauty in the first place. Even if she never came close to an eating disorder, the priority modeling would place on her appearances would be highly distracting. I knew some boys growing up who were child actors- did a lot of commercials, one even had a role in a major movie- they seemed incredbily isolated from the regular world of childhood, and not terribly happy most of the time. (FWIW).

re: the 5 year old: that would be startling; I'd think it only disturbing if he started making comments like that at mealtimes, or focusing on weight when he describes people. We can't raise our kids completely "fat blind," because there is a health issue involved, but it seems to me as long as the issue remains health, there aren't the same body image/eating disorder issues looming (bulimics don't purge to be healthier).

Besides, if his winter coat is anything like my kids' winter gear, its not a matter of appearing a little chunky- he probably doubles his size when he puts it on. So his comments are probably just an accurate observation, not a sign of growing insecurity about body image.

[viet_mom]

Originally posted by yertle
So his comments are probably just an accurate observation...

OMG. I cannot BELIEVE you just called DTB's kid fat. !!

To DTB: I would be interested in his reply if you asked him where he heard about "being fat." Maybe he is being exposed to some weight-obsessed person that you can ask to shut up around him. (PS I've only heard of one male anorexic - Billy Bob Thornton.)

On the modeling issue (and this issue too): it makes me think about how the comments are already starting with Vietbabe: the type of comments I don't want her to hear lest they make her think "looks are everything." People mean well but I'm hearing stupid stuff that it's great that she doesn't eat much because she will be "skinny like most Asian girls", and (much more offensive) "You know...she doesn't really look Oriental because her eyes aren't that slitty". I could never let her model no matter how good a contract was -- I know the focus on looks would just bother me on principal. I'd get physical the second they applied eyeliner to "open up the eye". I'd be a very very bad stage parent.

Vietmom

[Trepidation_Mom]

Originally posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy
It's scary how quickly societal attitudes get imposed on kids.

I was visiting a grad-school friend a while ago, who has taken off the last few years from her univ. position to do the mommy thing. Her latest book is in suspended animation, and we were going over it and talking about where she was in her editing and how anxious she was to get back to her faculty and get back to work once her younger kid was in preschool. Her older daughter (4-5 ish) walked up to us and threw the manuscript of the book on the floor, saying it was a "bad thing," and threw a complete tantrum demanding that her mom promise never, ever, ever to go to work, because only bad hateful mommies worked.

After this, I looked at my friend and said, basically, "holy shit." She said, "yeah, we have no idea where she gets it from. It's always been very clear that I am a professor, and that is what I do, and I want to go back to doing it as soon as possible. We think she picked it up at pre-school." What are they teaching in pre-school these days?

Originally posted by viet_mom
OMG. I cannot BELIEVE you just called DTB's kid fat. !!

I'm sure I've now compounded his body image problems.

Really, sometimes kids just say stuff and its only meaningful thru our adult lenses.

People who make dumb comments about baby girls growing up to be nice and skinny (even the ignorant Asian references aside) have clearly not had babies, at least not recently, and either don't know or have forgotten the anxiety over whether baby is gaining enough weight/eating enough. Ignore them if you can.

BTW, how is vietbabe doing? I seem to recall many posts ago you were worried about her weight gain.

[viet_mom]

Originally posted by yertle
Really, sometimes kids just say stuff and its only meaningful thru our adult lenses.

Like some of the stuff Bugs Bunny says!

BTW, how is vietbabe doing? I seem to recall many posts ago you were worried about her weight gain.

Thanks for asking. I'm getting more comfortable it's just her. She's gained (though not as much as other kids) and she is probably destined to just lag behind in weight. She's 14 months and fits in 0-3 months clothes (except the pants are like flood pants, and the shirt is hard to get over her normal sized head; she's skinny and flat so everywhere else it fits). What astonished me was the results when parents with Vietbabes emailed heights and weights to someone who tabulated all the figures from birth to age 5. We made our own growth charts. Our kids are peanuts. Some of them are Vietbabe's weight and they are 3 years old. So I guess I have a future skinny Asian girl. Maybe if DTB's fat boy grows up to have an Asian Fetish they could get married or something and have normal sized kids.

Vietmom (Oh thank God the Babe can't read email.....Yet)

[lookingformarket]

Originally posted by dtb
[description of 5 year old in coat saying], "I don't want to wear this -- I look fat in it...."
********
I have no idea where he got this,
****

Two things:

1. You really need to stop him from reading the Fashion Board.
2. Probably wasn't a good parenting technique to correct him by saying "Honey, at least speak properly and say 'I look like a fat in it'"

LFM

Turtle no. 1 is in second grade this year, blasting through the academic stuff, but having increasing difficulty holding onto her temper. She has always been a tad volatile (from birth, and I think before), and has always had a tendency to live in her own mind and respond better to written instruction than to verbal instruction. However, until this year, her most spectacular tantrums were reserved for family and she stayed on a reasonably even keel in school. Her teacher tells me it is not uncommon to see behaviors like this worsen for a time in 2d grade, because the activities are suddenly so much more structured and there is considerably less time for a child to "opt out" of activities than there was in kindergarten or first grade. That makes me feel a little better, but this seems like a reversal of what had been 2-3 years of steady progress developing some emotional maturity, and so causes me concern.

The school is very good, and the teacher very in tune with the various levels of ability among the students and conscious of the need of a few kids (including mine) to be given things that make them reach academically, so I don't think it is just a matter of not being sufficiently challenged in class, though sometimes there is some of that.

Anybody been through this? have any thoughts? thanks.

[dtb]

Originally posted by viet_mom
OMG. I cannot BELIEVE you just called DTB's kid fat. !!

To DTB: I would be interested in his reply if you asked him where he heard about "being fat." Maybe he is being exposed to some weight-obsessed person that you can ask to shut up around him. (PS I've only heard of one male anorexic - Billy Bob Thornton.)

Well, at the time, I just said -- it's just a puffy coat -- it's not you. And then when I went to school with him, I pointed out all the other kids in puffy coats.

A couple days later, I asked him where he heard about being fat. I asked him what made him worried about looking fat and he said that someone might call him fat. I asked if anyone had called him fat (which would have been very surprising) and he said no, so I asked who he thought might call him fat, or if anyone in his class called anyone else fat, the answers to which were all "no". I then asked him if he knew anyone who was fat, and he thought for a moment, then said, "the girls' babysitter upstairs is fat" (and he had a point there -- that woman WAS obese, but has recently lost probably about 150 pounds.) He couldn't come up with anyone else.

I told him that yes, she WAS fat, but now was eating nutritious foods and exercising, and isn't fat anymore. He couldn't come up with another fat person -- so I dropped it. I don't want it to become a way of his getting attention, which, ultimately, I think it was. The look of "forced sadness" on his face (which, looking back, I think it was) makes me think he was just looking for attention (a common theme with the new sibling in the house.)

I haven't heard any more about it, so I hope it is now a non-issue.

[lookingformarket]

Originally posted by yertle
Turtle no. 1 is in second grade this year, blasting through the academic stuff, but having increasing difficulty holding onto her temper. She has always been a tad volatile (from birth, and I think before), and has always had a tendency to live in her own mind and respond better to written instruction than to verbal instruction.

*************

Anybody been through this? have any thoughts? thanks.

Well dear, we talked about this at dinner last night. Do you really need to go to an anonymous internet board to get the opinions of others?

On the off chance that you aren't my wife and aren't talking about my daughter, rest assured that it is not abnormal. Continued consistent discipline is the only way to deal with most child problems.

[On the off chance that you aren't my wife and aren't talking about my daughter, rest assured that it is not abnormal. Continued consistent discipline is the only way to deal with most child problems.

Can't be your wife- my DH hasn't been online since I posted. Point taken, though- could be many of us in the same boat.

I agree on the continued consistent discipline- at the same time I worry about regressive behaviors when the parental inputs (i.e., approach to discipline and other things) haven't changed at all.

[lookingformarket]

Originally posted by yertle
at the same time I worry about regressive behaviors when the parental inputs (i.e., approach to discipline and other things) haven't changed at all.

On this point, I attribute it all to her being female and therefore running her life in a manner designed to frustrate and confuse .

Originally posted by lookingformarket
On this point, I attribute it all to her being female and therefore running her life in a manner designed to frustrate and confuse .

well, there is always that. Pretty damn good at it, too.

[lawyer_princess]

My first grader has become difficult as of late. I hope this is just an early manifestation of second grade blues. I would hate to think of her becoming even more obstinate next year.

Chant my mantra with me, people: "It's only a phase. It's only a phase. It's only a phase..."

[Greedy,Greedy,Greedy]

Originally posted by lawyer_princess
My first grader has become difficult as of late. I hope this is just an early manifestation of second grade blues. I would hate to think of her becoming even more obstinate next year.

Chant my mantra with me, people: "It's only a phase. It's only a phase. It's only a phase..."

We now have a three year old who has discovered the joys of adult torture.

It is only a phase. It is only a phase.

[Gattigap]

So we took Gatti Jr. to Wiggles Live, as our favorite Metrosexual Monochromatic Australian Friends Together with Assorted Animals descended upon our nation's capital.

Some assorted observations:

* Amusingly, I noticed that MCI Center's concessions were in full swing -- including beer sales. (Though tempted at the thought of being forced to watch Wags the Dog for an hour or so, I abstained.)

* After coughing up ticket prices, event parking fees, and concessions costs on par with a Stones concert, I felt I should've brought my lighter.

* Floor seats for a toddler show suck.

Unlike a [generic rock concert tour to be inserted here] show, where the "floor" consists of a teeming mass of humanity, and the expectations of the participants are to obtain occasional glimpses of the show but more importantly to seek hookup prospects, in a toddler show, the floor seats are actually, well, seats.

The expectations of those on the floor seemed to vary.

The kids, by and large, didn't give a damn how much of the stage they consistently saw. The aisles were great places to dance, sing and play with their heroes from the TV set.

The parents (at least some of them) however, wanted their tyke to see the show, dammit -- and that's where the trouble started.

Various miscreants up front descided to stand hold tyke at or above shoulder level, all the better for tyke to see the glory of Capt. Feathersword. This little manuver certainly helped junior, but didn't exactly help the 40 or so people in the 15 rows behind him. As Gatti Jr.'s joy of dancing and singing in the aisle was unaffected, I decided to let this breach of etiquette go by. Not so, however, for the Enraged Woman in front of me, which led to the following Kabuki Theater moments:

-- Enraged Woman in tense conversation with Collared, Perplexed, Underpaid MCI Center Event Staff. No satisfaction.

-- Enraged Woman marching up to Miscreant Woman, who was adjacent to Rather Large, Imposing Miscreant Man. Much gesticulating. In partial response to Enraged Woman, Miscreant Man casts a frosty, rather leaden glance back in our general direction to take in the affected area. I, together with others in affected area, Glance Elsewhere. In the end, no satisfaction. And, probably only because of the toddlers each combatant was carrying at the time, No Bloodshed. (Which, those in the affected area generally agreed, was a pity. Though it was an off night for the Capitals, the MCI Center could certainly have used a few more teeth on the floor).

-- Enraged Woman gathering entourage and staging a dramatic move, presumably to higher ground.

Which, as it happened, gave Gatti Jr. a better view, and more room to dance.