Politics: Onward from New Hampshire

[Not Me]

Originally posted by sgtclub This is why the administration has been so opposed to turning Iraq over to the UN. We actually are looking for results this time, not just good appearances.

There is more and more evidence that the oil for food program was a bastion of corruption. The money mostly went to SH and not to help the Iraqi people. SH used it to pay off many Europeans to help him get away with this. And it looks like Kofi Annan's son worked for a company that was hired to police the oil-for-food program.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.../ixportal.html
http://www.nypost.com/news/worldnews/21144.htm

[Skeks in the city]

Originally posted by bilmore

From the Economist:

"Anxiety is turning to paranoia about jobs. Take a deep breath: most Americans have rarely had it better."

http://www.economist.com/world/na/Pr...ory_ID=2501977

That's irrelevant. You and club don't understand that people are envious and in fact are so envious that they are willing to trade a lower absolute standard of living for less disparity in society's distribution of wealth and income. You both also don't understand that people are loss averse and are so loss averse that they are willing to trade less risk in the job market for less economic growth.

[sgtclub]

Originally posted by Skeks in the city
Originally posted by bilmore



That's irrelevant. You and club don't understand that people are envious and in fact are so envious that they are willing to trade a lower absolute standard of living for less disparity in society's distribution of wealth and income. You both also don't understand that people are loss averse and are so loss averse that they are willing to trade less risk in the job market for less economic growth.

By people you mean you and your friends? Cite please.

The job market and economic growth are connected. You cannot have less risk in the job market without economic growth, unless everybody is employed by the state. Oh, wait a minute. I see where you are going with this . . .

[Skeks in the city]

Originally posted by sgtclub

The job market and economic growth are connected. You cannot have less risk in the job market without economic growth, unless everybody is employed by the state. Oh, wait a minute. I see where you are going with this . . .

Job security and economic growth are connected, but not in the way you think. Making it easier for employers to fire or lay off workers and off shore jobs makes the economy more efficient, and likely leads to faster growth of GDP, but it decreases job security.

It's harder to fire workers in Europe and Japan than in the US. If there is a backlash against gains in productivity, immigration and offshoring, americans could decide US workers need protection and make the US job market less liquid.

[sgtclub]

Originally posted by Skeks in the city
Originally posted by sgtclub



Job security and economic growth are connected, but not in the way you think. Making it easier for employers to fire or lay off workers and off shore jobs makes the economy more efficient, and likely leads to faster growth of GDP, but it decreases job security.

It's harder to fire workers in Europe and Japan than in the US. If there is a backlash against gains in productivity, immigration and offshoring, americans could decide US workers need protection and make the US job market less liquid.

You are living in fantasy land.

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally posted by sgtclub
By people you mean you and your friends? Cite please.

The job market and economic growth are connected. You cannot have less risk in the job market without economic growth, unless everybody is employed by the state. Oh, wait a minute. I see where you are going with this . . .

Club, what did Stern say to get the fine, not the CC boot. I'm pissed about this crap. i know Clinton's FCC went after him, but it really bugs me that someone I voted for is ruining Howard- all he does is bitch- it isn't listenable.

But what scares me more is that Atticus predicted Right wing morality intervention- (again clinton did the same crap but still).
If Atticus' predictions start coming true there's the whole yellowstone caldera thing.

[Hank Chinaski]

As you know I was a long time lurker at infirm. I came across this unpolished gem while manning the wall back there, and just thought it timely to quote it here. Oh, bol, we knew you when.....

http://www.infirmation.com/bboard/cl...?msg_id=002AHi

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally posted by sgtclub
Then why is the amount we give as a percentage of GDP so important. So that we can be as stupid with our money as the enlighted countries in westen europe? This is another case of people being unwilling to look beyond the first level of the analysis. Reminds me of the welfare reform debate, where we were reminded time and time again that if you wanted to reform welfare you were against the poor, regardless of what effect the current system was having on the poor. Or the schools debate, where as long as we keep devoting more and more resources to education, we don't have to look further to see if the lack of that money is the reason we are not getting the results we want.

Back to foreign aid. Throughout the 90s, we gave billions to Russia without sufficient controls in place. The result? Most of that money went into the hands of the powerful and had little effect on stabilizing the democratic and economic institutions necessary to produce the type of system we wanted. But is was OK because we were giving the money. This is why the administration has been so opposed to turning Iraq over to the UN. We actually are looking for results this time, not just good appearances.

You are arguing against a straw man. I think you will find that the people who most support foreign aid are also the people with the strongest ideas about how it should be done differently.

[bilmore]

Originally posted by Skeks in the city
That's irrelevant. You and club don't understand that people are envious and in fact are so envious that they are willing to trade a lower absolute standard of living for less disparity in society's distribution of wealth and income. You both also don't understand that people are loss averse and are so loss averse that they are willing to trade less risk in the job market for less economic growth.

You've been reading Engels again, haven't you?

You KNOW that always gives you heartburn.

[Not Me]

Originally posted by Tyrone_Slothrop
I think you will find that the people who most support foreign aid are also the people with the strongest ideas about how it should be done differently.

How should it be done differently, in your opinion?

[Secret_Agent_Man]

Originally posted by sgtclub
You are living in fantasy land.

In what way, club?

Here is what he said (omitting the first sentence where he talked about your beliefs):

"Making it easier for employers to fire or lay off workers and off shore jobs makes the economy more efficient, and likely leads to faster growth of GDP, but it decreases job security.

It's harder to fire workers in Europe and Japan than in the US. If there is a backlash against gains in productivity, immigration and offshoring, americans could decide US workers need protection and make the US job market less liquid."

Ok? Please tell me what he said that is not true, and why.

S_A_M

[Not Me]

I don't see how this is going to make Israel safer. Someone will just take his place.

Hamas Leader Killed in Airstrike, Prompting Threats of Revenge Against Israel, U.S.

GAZA CITY, Gaza Strip (AP) - Israel killed Hamas founder Ahmed Yassin in a helicopter missile strike outside a Gaza City mosque Monday, prompting threats of unprecedented revenge by Palestinian militants against Israel and the United States.

Yassin was the most prominent Palestinian leader killed by Israel in more than three years of fighting, and his assassination was seen as a major escalation.

At the cemetery, Yassin's body was carried between two rows of 200 militants armed with anti-tank missiles and machine guns.

"Words cannot describe the emotion of anger and hate inside our hearts," said Hamas official Ismail Haniyeh, a close associate of Yassin.

Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon called Yassin the "mastermind of Palestinian terror" and a "mass murderer who is among Israel's greatest enemies."

Sharon said Israel will press ahead with its war on terror, signaling more targeted attacks and raids. "The war against terror has not ended and will continue day after day, everywhere," he said.

Israeli helicopters fired three missile as Yassin, his bodyguards and dozens of others left a mosque in Gaza City at daybreak Monday. Yassin, a quadriplegic who uses a wheelchair, and seven others were killed, including several bodyguards. Seventeen people were wounded.

Only a charred metal seat and a twisted wheel were left of his wheelchair and a blood-soaked brown shoe lay in the street. "Two or three people were lying next to him on the ground. One was legless," said taxi driver Yousef Haddad, who had rushed out of a nearby grocery when the missiles shook the Sabra neighborhood.

"The Israeli air force this morning killed the mastermind of all evil, Ahmed Yassin, who was a preacher of death," said army spokeswoman Brig. Gen Ruth Yaron.

The Yassin assassination was seen as an enormous gamble by Sharon, who is trying to score a decisive victory against Hamas ahead of a possible Israeli withdrawal from Gaza, but risks triggering a dramatic escalation in bloodshed that could turn the public's mood in Israel against him.

Sharon's critics in Israel warned that the Yassin killing could be seen as an attack by Israel on Islam and unnecessarily widen the circle of conflict.

The Palestinian Authority said in a statement that "Israel has exceeded all red lines with this cheap and dirty crime," and declared a three-day mourning period.

Hamas threatened a harsh response. "Yassin is a man in a nation, and a nation in a man. And the retaliation of this nation will be of the size of this man," said Abdel Aziz Rantisi, a prominent Hamas leader in Gaza who himself escaped an Israeli assassination attempt last June.

For the first time, Hamas also threatened the United States, saying America's backing of Israel made the assassination possible. "All the Muslims of the world will be honored to join in on the retaliation for this crime," Hamas said in a statement.

In the past, Hamas leaders have insisted their struggle is against Israel and that they would not get involved in causes by militant Muslims in other parts of the world. Monday's statement suggested that Hamas might seek outside help in carrying out revenge attacks, since its capabilities have been limited by Israeli military strikes.

[bilmore]

Originally posted by Not Me
I don't see how this is going to make Israel safer. Someone will just take his place.

Yes, I leave the rabid dogs roaming around our yard for just that reason.

[sgtclub]

Originally posted by Hank Chinaski
Club, what did Stern say to get the fine, not the CC boot. I'm pissed about this crap. i know Clinton's FCC went after him, but it really bugs me that someone I voted for is ruining Howard- all he does is bitch- it isn't listenable.

But what scares me more is that Atticus predicted Right wing morality intervention- (again clinton did the same crap but still).
If Atticus' predictions start coming true there's the whole yellowstone caldera thing.

http://www.howardstern.com/H%20Stern...Transcript.htm

[Not Me]

Originally posted by bilmore
Yes, I leave the rabid dogs roaming around our yard for just that reason.

I understand the similarities between what Israel did and the US trying to kill OBL or the other guy who is #2 in AQ. However, in AQ, OBL is the money guy and that #2 guy (forget and cannot spell his name) is supposedly the brains. If you get rid of them, I think you can do some damage to the organization.

But I am not sure that with Hamas, killing this guy will make anything better. Maybe it will and I just don't know enough about how Hamas is organized and financed.