Politics: Onward from New Hampshire

[ltl/fb]

Originally posted by Secret_Agent_Man
(a) True enough.

(b) I just can't see how this ends well.

On an interesting, though perhaps unrelated point. I've wondered a lot recently about how the terrorist situation today might be different if we'd had democratic governments in the Middle East for the past 50 years -- especially as I've read more about al Zawahiri's background. It seems to me like less repressive governments that permitted free and open political participation could have provided legitimate outlets for much of this pressure/activism/intellect. Brilliant and scholarly people like Yassin and Zawahiri might have found better things to do than lead terrorist groups.

Note: This probably would not have helped Israel, but remains another example of how hangovers from the Cold War still dramatically affect our lives today.

So, when you get down to it, it's all really the fault of Lenin (or Marx, or the Tsar of Russia, or 19th Century capitalism).

S_A_M

Surely we can find a role for colonialism? Or perhaps the Crusaders?

[Secret_Agent_Man]

Originally posted by sgtclub
Read the whole thread. We cannot trade growth for job security.

We certainly can -- at least in the short term. Europe and Japan have done so. You say we should not. I'm not sure what Sitc is saying beyond that some people may want to do so.

S_A_M

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally posted by Secret_Agent_Man
Maybe so, and I'm surprised by the force of his comments, but the f-ing idiot is one Nobel prize and many, many good deeds ahead of everyone on this Board.

S_A_M

Right. He brought peace to the Middle East.

He also oversaw the start of Iran, and was a co-conspirator in giving North Korea the bomb. Maybe he's Alzheimer'd now, but this kind of crap would cause me to publicly blame him for all that he oversaw, and all the damage he allowed/caused. Bush's restaint in these situations is remarkable, but this one might call for a response.

[Not Me]

Originally posted by Secret_Agent_Man
(b) I just can't see how this ends well.

Just heard that Hezbollah is now firing on Israeli outposts on the Lebanon border.

Originally posted by Secret_Agent_Man
I've wondered a lot recently about how the terrorist situation today might be different if we'd had democratic governments in the Middle East for the past 50 years -- especially as I've read more about al Zawahiri's background. It seems to me like less repressive governments that permitted free and open political participation could have provided legitimate outlets for much of this pressure/activism/intellect. Brilliant and scholarly people like Yassin and Zawahiri might have found better things to do than lead terrorist groups.

Agreed and is why invading Iraq and establishing a democracy there will ultimately stabilize the region.

Originally posted by Secret_Agent_Man
Note: This probably would not have helped Israel, but remains another example of how hangovers from the Cold War still dramatically affect our lives today.

If you drive a gas guzzeling SUV, you ride with OBL.

[Secret_Agent_Man]

Originally posted by bilmore
Do you mean the death of this guy, or the Arab world's desire to wipe out Israel? 'Cuz, the one is just a rational response to the other. In my view, all of Israel's acts must be judged in that context.

I meant the Palestinin-Israeli conflict.

[bilmore]

Originally posted by Secret_Agent_Man
Maybe so, and I'm surprised by the force of his comments, but the f-ing idiot is one Nobel prize and many, many good deeds ahead of everyone on this Board.

S_A_M

I doubt I would ever call the guy an idiot, but he did run one of the most ineffectual and counter-productive presidencies ever, his recent (last five years?) pronouncements border on the radical loony fringe, and his Nobel prize was simply one way that Old Europe could strike back at Bush.

And I bet he can't hammer a nail straight to save his life.

[ltl/fb]

Originally posted by sgtclub
Read the whole thread. We cannot trade growth for job security.

Sweet pea, I think the comment re: moving to protectionism may have had to do with people voting and stuff. Like, people who have been affected most by job INsecurity may vote for people who promise to protect their jobs rather than continuing to sacrifice personal security for overall economic growth. I didn't read that skeks was advocating that this is a good overall policy, he was just pointing out that there could be a backlash.

But you may continue living in theory world.*

*I'm not sure whether this shares a border with fantasy land or not, but I suspect it may.

[Not Me]

Originally posted by Secret_Agent_Man
the f-ing idiot is one Nobel prize and many, many good deeds ahead of everyone on this Board.

While I am quite impressed by a Nobel prize in medicine, the Nobel peace prize is meaningless. They gave a Nobel peace prize to fucking Arafat.

[Hank Chinaski]

http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default...-3-2004_pg1_10

for sale in department stores in Pakistan

[Not Me]

Originally posted by Hank Chinaski
The problem is that its an endless supply of "current murderers."
They don't need brillant tacticians to plan someone stepping on a bus and blowing himself up. So what possible end is there? I don't know enough to know how this is different than the last 10 assinations, but surely there will be bombings, and surely Israel will retaliate.

Meanwhile, another generation grows in both countries with hate.

Agreed but what is the solution?

[Secret_Agent_Man]

Originally posted by Hank Chinaski
Right. He brought peace to the Middle East.

He also oversaw the start of Iran, and was a co-conspirator in giving North Korea the bomb. Maybe he's Alzheimer'd now, but this kind of crap would cause me to publicly blame him for all that he oversaw, and all the damage he allowed/caused. Bush's restaint in these situations is remarkable, but this one might call for a response.

Careful Hank, your troll roots are showing.

(a) So -- you think the Camp David peace accords aren't worthy of praise? The one peaceful border Israel has had over the past 20 years?

(b) "Oversaw the start of Iran"? WTF? If Carter could and should have done something different vis a vis "Iran" and the Iranian Revolution as a whole, (aside from looking weak and ineffectual throughout the hostage crisis") why didn't your hero RR set it straight? He could have knocked the place over like a matchbox and F--ck the Russians.

(c) A co-conspirator in giving NK the bomb? You should ghostwrite for Ann Coulter.

Bush's restraint is "remarkable" because there is no way that a discussion of these issues helps him politically -- he really wants to move the campaign onto other issues. Witness recent speeches about how all this conflict and disagreement is in the past. Therefore, I hope our body politic manages to spend several weeks hashing through the new Clarke book. Hard to characterize that man as a nutcase or a secret Democrat.

S_A_M

[Not Me]

http://www.maarivintl.com/index.cfm?...articleID=5023

[bilmore]

Originally posted by Secret_Agent_Man
Hard to characterize that man as a nutcase or a secret Democrat.

Was that a pre-emptive strike, knowing that Clarke was a holdover Clinton guy who got demoted by Bush and Rice, and explained on 60 Minutes that he was super-pissed at the time, but not quite pissed enough to quit? (Probably wanted to wait for book day, huh?)

[ltl/fb]

Originally posted by Secret_Agent_Man
the new Clarke book. Hard to characterize that man as . . . a secret Democrat.

S_A_M

Moderate,* please. They did it on 60 Min. He (a) worked for CLINTON and (b) is co-teaching a course at the KENNEDY SCHOOL at HARVARD with some guy who advises KERRY.

I have helpfully capitalized key DEMOCRAT-Y words for you.

*Noun, not verb.

[ltl/fb]

Originally posted by bilmore
Was that a pre-emptive strike, knowing that Clarke was a holdover Clinton guy who got demoted by Bush and Rice, and explained on 60 Minutes that he was super-pissed at the time, but not quite pissed enough to quit? (Probably wanted to wait for book day, huh?)

See? His service to Reagan and Bush I* can be disregarded with impunity.

This is nearly as entertaining as predicting chef's defenses of sunnybunny on the old fashion board was!!! Yay!!!!!

*I'm sure that there is a lot of other stuff that would mark him as a conservative/REPUBLICAN, but I'm not an expert on Clarke's bio.