Still Hating America.

[Diane_Keaton]

Originally posted by ltl/fb
or would be born with essentially no brain

Are you calling Adder "horribly wrong". If so,

2.

[ltl/fb]

Originally posted by Hank Chinaski
that fetus looked pretty healthy. i thought this was for fucked up feti.

That picture was not very accurate anatomically.

Adder is horribly wrong. But he probably has more of a brain than at least 40% of the general worldwide adult population.

[Diane_Keaton]

Originally posted by ltl/fb
I think usually there's either a big tear in the genital area, or it is cut open. Tears apparently heal faster in most cases.

They heal quicker than baby's back of the neck wound.

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally posted by ltl/fb
That picture was not very accurate anatomically.

Adder is horribly wrong. But he probably has more of a brain than at least 40% of the general worldwide adult population.

2. You are counting all mammals right?

[Diane_Keaton]

Originally posted by ltl/fb
he probably has more of a brain than at least 40% of the general worldwide adult population.

In the spirit of bipartisanship, I agree, as long as that isn't a bright line percentage.

[ltl/fb]

Originally posted by Diane_Keaton
They heal quicker than baby's back of the neck wound.

Are there episiotomies (sp?) for D&Es?

[Diane_Keaton]

Originally posted by ltl/fb
Are there episiotomies (sp?) for D&Es?

Actually, no. It is not necessary because with both Partial Birth and D&E, the baby's head is squished before being removed, so it is small when it moves through the canal and doesn't cause tears.

[bi-partisanship fairy]

Originally posted by Hank Chinaski
2, counting all mammals

In the spirit of bipartisanship, I agree, as long as that isn't a bright line percentage from a floor perspective.

[ltl/fb]

Originally posted by Diane_Keaton
Actually, no. It is not necessary because with both Partial Birth and D&E, the baby's head is squished before being removed, so it is small when it moves through the canal and doesn't cause tears.

Um, what they call Partial Birth is D&E -- do I have to draw a Venn diagram? And does not the head come out first sometimes? It may depend whether the D&E is being done at 14 weeks or 24 weeks. I think collapsing the head is sometimes/frequently a part of a D&E, but that something can be a D&E w/o that being done. It's not a defining feature.

[Adder]

Originally posted by LessinSF
Viability is ultimately a ridiculous test as science advances. It won't be long before the blastocyte will be able to be removed from the uterus, cared for in a test tube, and inserted into a surrogate mother. Does this mean that the government can require a woman pregnant a mere two weeks undergo that procedure, and become that child's mother? And why would we want that (as Sebby points out - millions of unwanted babies)?

Birth is also a logically indefensible position for pro-choicers. If one argues that the mother can kill their child pre-birth, it follows that they should be able to kill it post-birth. And, in fact, common law recognized that children were considered animals until age 7. When that is combined with many parents realizing they have bred little monsters, parents should have the right (and the duty if they are aware they have bred an animal-torturing future serial killer) to put their rabid child down.

You have a compromise?

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally posted by Shape Shifter
How's Gonzo doing? Was he adequately prepared?

CNN White House reporter Suzanne Malveaux just aired this report:

• ...people who we have spoken to, White House insiders, those involved in discussion with members, senior staff, behind me in [the White House] as well as outside, are saying that Gonzales is in trouble...
  
  ...I just want to read a couple of things, describing the testimony as, from two senior level White House aides, "going down in flames," "not doing himself any favors," that this was "predictable."
  
  One prominent Republican describing the testimony this way, as "watching a clubbing of [a] baby seal."
  
  Clearly, these people are saying, this all hangs on one person, and that is the President.

link

[Adder]

Originally posted by Diane_Keaton
(2) someone who says "I know it's complicated but still, I am against killing fetuses at all" (total pro-life).

I very rarely see this point come with your caveat. But then again, living in a liberal fantasyland, I don't come across pro-life positions every often outside the media.

[LessinSF]

Originally posted by Diane_Keaton
Actually, no. It is not necessary because with both Partial Birth and D&E, the baby's head is squished before being removed, so it is small when it moves through the canal and doesn't cause tears.

On a second trimester D&E, the woman goes in the day before and has implements inserted to dilate the cervix overnight, then the D&E is done the next day.

[Diane_Keaton]

Originally posted by ltl/fb
Um, what they call Partial Birth is D&E -- do I have to draw a Venn diagram? And does not the head come out first sometimes? It may depend whether the D&E is being done at 14 weeks or 24 weeks. I think collapsing the head is sometimes/frequently a part of a D&E, but that something can be a D&E w/o that being done. It's not a defining feature.

The Partial Birth ban doesn't encompass all D&E's. But whatever. Your question was whether a woman would need an episiotemy to prevent tearing during a D&E and my answer was no b/c even if the fetus head is big, they squish it before it comes out so it's not going to tear the tissue. I have no idea why you are talking about episiotomies but...there it is.

[Diane_Keaton]

Originally posted by LessinSF
On a second trimester D&E, the woman goes in the day before and has implements inserted to dilate the cervix overnight, then the D&E is done the next day.

Fringey's question was about episiotomies, which are to prevent uneven tearing of the vaginal opening, not the cervix. So dilation of the cervix doesn't matter. Vagina, cervix, uterus -- 3 different things. I hope for your sake you know where the Dolores is.