Making Baby Jesus Cry

[Penske_Account]

Originally posted by Bad_Rich_Chic
The last time smart-ass idealistic 20-somethings got to really run anything was probably the French Revolution, but the Economist makes me think things might work out better next time.

Are you saying France's superpower status doesn't vindicate their effourts?

[spookyfish]

Originally posted by Penske_Account
2. Belongs with the states. Let the state legislatures decide.

I think this would be a swell idea, but for the fact that I'm willing to bet that 90% of the populace doesn't know where their state legislators stand on the subject. In some ways, I would venture to say the state politicians are even less accountable to the electorate than the federal ones, in the sense that the public at large knows less about them and what they are doing. Now, if you're talking a referendum, that's another thing, entirely.

[Mmmm, Burger (C.J.)]

Originally posted by spookyfish
I think this would be a swell idea, but for the fact that I'm willing to bet that 90% of the populace doesn't know where their state legislators stand on the subject. In some ways, I would venture to say the state politicians are even less accountable to the electorate than the federal ones, in the sense that the public at large knows less about them and what they are doing. Now, if you're talking a referendum, that's another thing, entirely.

Not that Congress sets the rules for abortion (other than on miltary bases, etc.)

If Roe/Casey were overturned there would be a five-10 year period where a bunch of unwanted juvenile deliquents would be born, to terrorize all of us as we get to retirement age.

Then, the voters in half the states would throw out most of the legislators voting to restrict abortion, and it would end up as available as it is now.

While Penske is right about current politicians, that's because of the focus the conservatives have put on electing anti-abortion types. Given a different S. Ct. rule, I don't doubt the liberals' ability to create focus as well.

[SlaveNoMore]

Mmmm, Burger (C.J.)
When is stevens retiring?

Not soon enough.

[ba dum dum]

[NotFromHere]

Michael Brown "resigned."

WASHINGTON - Federal Emergency Management Agency Director Mike Brown said Monday he has resigned “in the best interest of the agency and best interest of the president,” three days after losing his on-site command of the Hurricane Katrina relief effort.

“The focus has got to be on FEMA, what the people are trying to do down there,” Brown told The Associated Press.

[SlaveNoMore]

spookyfish
I think this would be a swell idea, but for the fact that I'm willing to bet that 90% of the populace doesn't know where their state legislators stand on the subject. In some ways, I would venture to say the state politicians are even less accountable to the electorate than the federal ones, in the sense that the public at large knows less about them and what they are doing. Now, if you're talking a referendum, that's another thing, entirely.

You really think this?*

Hell, it always amused me that the lowliest of low-level local officials feel the need to state their affinity for Roe during their campaigns.

I always find myself asking, "Why the flying fuck do I care that City Councilman Joe Blow supports Roe. Where does he stand on that traffic light!!!!"



* then again, a sizable majority of Americans couldn't find the State of Texas on a map, so you may have a point.

[Penske_Account]

Originally posted by Mmmm, Burger (C.J.)
Not that Congress sets the rules for abortion (other than on miltary bases, etc.)

If Roe/Casey were overturned there would be a five-10 year period where a bunch of unwanted juvenile deliquents would be born, to terrorize all of us as we get to retirement age.

Then, the voters in half the states would throw out most of the legislators voting to restrict abortion, and it would end up as available as it is now.

While Penske is right about current politicians, that's because of the focus the conservatives have put on electing anti-abortion types. Given a different S. Ct. rule, I don't doubt the liberals' ability to create focus as well.

Let the people decide. I disagree with that assessment. On abortion the populace is more conservative than the current state of the law reflects (due to judicial activism). I am not predicting abortion becomes illegal, except in a handful of states, maybe, but there will be tighter restrictions and more accent on personal responsibility. Of course in some places, CA, there will probably be abortion on demand through the due date.

As for the juvenile delinquent birthrate, the SEcond Amendmnet takes care of that.

[Gattigap]

Originally posted by Mmmm, Burger (C.J.)
Not that Congress sets the rules for abortion (other than on miltary bases, etc.)

If Roe/Casey were overturned there would be a five-10 year period where a bunch of unwanted juvenile deliquents would be born, to terrorize all of us as we get to retirement age.

Then, the voters in half the states would throw out most of the legislators voting to restrict abortion, and it would end up as available as it is now.

While Penske is right about current politicians, that's because of the focus the conservatives have put on electing anti-abortion types. Given a different S. Ct. rule, I don't doubt the liberals' ability to create focus as well.

AoN, I listened to an NPRish radio interview recently in which the guest pointed out that there are dozens of statutes still on the books which have been effectively preempted by Roe and its progeny, but for which noone is quite sure what really happens in the event that Roe is overruled.

Do they spring back into being? Do they continue being ineffective, and some future act must reinstate them?

Complicating the matter further is that these state laws are really all over the map. Some states have laws completely outlawing abortion. Some states, apparently, have articulated rights of privacy in their state constitutions, but for which there hasn't really been any state court interpretation re: abortion because of Roe.

The guest's conclusion was that on the day that Roe were to go away, it would be legislative chaos for a number of years, as all participants trample each other in their rush to 50 different courthouses to sort out what the hell the law is at that immediate time.

[Shape Shifter]

Originally posted by Penske_Account
Let the people decide. I disagree with that assessment. On abortion the populace is more conservative than the current state of the law reflects (due to judicial activism). I am not predicting abortion becomes illegal, except in a handful of states, maybe, but there will be tighter restrictions and more accent on personal responsibility. Of course in some places, CA, there will probably be abortion on demand through the due date.

As for the juvenile delinquent birthrate, the SEcond Amendmnet takes care of that.

Excellent idea. I think all issues concerning civil rights should be put to a popular vote.

[Southern Patriot]

Originally posted by Shape Shifter
Excellent idea. I think all issues concerning civil rights should be put to a popular vote.

Good to have you aboard, Lizard. There really is some Texan in you after all.

I'm amazed that old States' Right canard is still around. We invented it back in the day because otherwise those damn Yankees would have voted out Slavery. But if we had the votes... damn, we would have enslaved every black south of Quebec.

[Shape Shifter]

Originally posted by Southern Patriot
Good to have you aboard, Lizard. There really is some Texan in you after all.

I'm amazed that old States' Right canard is still around. We invented it back in the day because otherwise those damn Yankees would have voted out Slavery. But if we had the votes... damn, we would have enslaved every black south of Quebec.

Oh, that could happen? All I wanted was legal weed.

[SlaveNoMore]

Gattigap
AoN, I listened to an NPRish radio interview recently in which the guest pointed out that there are dozens of statutes still on the books which have been effectively preempted by Roe and its progeny, but for which noone is quite sure what really happens in the event that Roe is overruled.

Do they spring back into being? Do they continue being ineffective, and some future act must reinstate them?

Complicating the matter further is that these state laws are really all over the map. Some states have laws completely outlawing abortion. Some states, apparently, have articulated rights of privacy in their state constitutions, but for which there hasn't really been any state court interpretation re: abortion because of Roe.

The guest's conclusion was that on the day that Roe were to go away, it would be legislative chaos for a number of years, as all participants trample each other in their rush to 50 different courthouses to sort out what the hell the law is at that immediate time.

But think of the billables, Gatti. The Billables!!!!

[Penske_Account]

Originally posted by Gattigap
AoN, I listened to an NPRish radio interview recently in which the guest pointed out that there are dozens of statutes still on the books which have been effectively preempted by Roe and its progeny, but for which noone is quite sure what really happens in the event that Roe is overruled.

Do they spring back into being? Do they continue being ineffective, and some future act must reinstate them?

Complicating the matter further is that these state laws are really all over the map. Some states have laws completely outlawing abortion. Some states, apparently, have articulated rights of privacy in their state constitutions, but for which there hasn't really been any state court interpretation re: abortion because of Roe.

The guest's conclusion was that on the day that Roe were to go away, it would be legislative chaos for a number of years, as all participants trample each other in their rush to 50 different courthouses to sort out what the hell the law is at that immediate time.

So. That's not excuse to leave a lousy state of the law or poorly crafted precedent in place. As for whether or not some states outlaw abortion, I don't have a problem with that as long as it is decided at the state level. Maybe the populaces of some states will decide that life begins at conception and from that point on society's interest in protecting the unborn life outweigh's the mother's rights. Personally, I am not of that opinion, but the state of Utah might be and I respect that.

[Penske_Account]

Originally posted by Shape Shifter
Excellent idea. I think all issues concerning civil rights should be put to a popular vote.

Whose civil rights, the mother or the unborn child?

[Shape Shifter]

Originally posted by Penske_Account
Whose civil rights, the mother or the unborn child?

What is an unborn child?