Meet your new thread, same as the old thread.

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally posted by LessinSF
I have little problem with it, but - under the approach being used in the Serbian war crimes trials - it was a war crime and Truman, Ike, Bradley, et al. are war criminals.

Agreed . it is only because we won that they aren't war criminals.

But, then again, I don't see why Iran or N. Korea are any less entitled to nukes than we are.

other than "So, we say so. I don't have a good answer."

[Cletus Miller]

Originally posted by sebastian_dangerfield
What I don't understand is why so many properties are in foreclosure so rapidly. Is this because the paper was flipped so many times? Or is everybody running to foreclose so they can sell off the properties while the discount is still modest? You'd think they;d want to be a little more open to liberal workouts from a cash flow persepctive. Maybe it's a regulatory thing.

A significant percentage (perhaps most) of the foreclosures are on "investor" properties. If there's no one living in them and no hope of flipping, then there's no reason to make payments. Make no payments for 6 months and don't return calls from teh lender, what else is the lender going to do?

Originally posted by Tyrone Slothrop
Ironweed, Hank claims to have invented some sort of posting form to demonstrate ignorance on the boards, and I, for one, believe him.

That's good enough for me.

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally posted by ironweed
That's good enough for me.

408-21

[sebastian_dangerfield]

Originally posted by Cletus Miller
A significant percentage (perhaps most) of the foreclosures are on "investor" properties. If there's no one living in them and no hope of flipping, then there's no reason to make payments. Make no payments for 6 months and don't return calls from teh lender, what else is the lender going to do?

Really? The flippers were that much of the market?

[SlaveNoMore]

sebastian_dangerfield
Well, thankfully we have Bush's huge bailout for those subprime mortgages as a template for future intervention when markets turn into irrational frenzies. All 300 beneficiaries are breathing a lot easier today.

BTW, when did a guy making $100k and taking out an ARM to buy a $500k house become a subprime borrower. Is "Subprime" the new "Hedge Fund"? Means whatever you want it to mean? I always thought subprime was a low credit score, but low and behold, suddenly, the ass up the street who bought a Hummer, Benz and McMansion with his 2d year associate's salary is a subprime borrower entitled to relief.

Thank God that plan is nothing but smoke and mirrors. I feel bad for a lot of people who got screwed in the inner cities by unscrupulous brokers, but fuck these greedheads who took out interest only loans and ARMs just because they wanted a living room in which they could put a 20 person dining table.

The more I read about this "bailout" - I don't get it.

The qualifications are so limited, it's only going to affect about 100,000 loans. A drop in the bucket. And most aren't even what is regarded as sub-prime. So why do anything at all?

The whole concept is deplorable. By propping up artificially high RE values - ostensibly so homeowners can continue the "American Dream" of owning a home - it's keeping countless others on the outside of the American Dream of owning a home.

[LessinSF]

Originally posted by SlaveNoMore
The more I read about this "bailout" - I don't get it.

The qualifications are so limited, it's only going to affect about 100,000 loans. A drop in the bucket. And most aren't even what is regarded as sub-prime. So why do anything at all?

The whole concept is deplorable. By propping up artificially high RE values - ostensibly so homeowners can continue the "American Dream" of owning a home - it's keeping countless others on the outside of the American Dream of owning a home.

Even the corpse of Lee Iacocca thinks it's bad policy.

[Cletus Miller]

Originally posted by sebastian_dangerfield
BTW, when did a guy making $100k and taking out an ARM to buy a $500k house become a subprime borrower.

Subprime, Alt-A, and Prime in mortgage lending all depend on three major factors: Credit Score (credit history), total Income-to-debt ratio (ability to service debt) and Collateral value.

You can make $500k/year and have perfect credit but be sub-prime if you want 100% financing on a $5mm house and have no other assets. You can be prime making $30k/year with a so-so (but not bad) credit score if you are borrowing $40k to buy a $55k house in north-central PA.

[sebastian_dangerfield]

Originally posted by SlaveNoMore
The more I read about this "bailout" - I don't get it.

The qualifications are so limited, it's only going to affect about 100,000 loans. A drop in the bucket. And most aren't even what is regarded as sub-prime. So why do anything at all?

The whole concept is deplorable. By propping up artificially high RE values - ostensibly so homeowners can continue the "American Dream" of owning a home - it's keeping countless others on the outside of the American Dream of owning a home.

Well, its not a real plan at all. It's just a photo-op. In my own craven little view, I'd let the market implode. RE is all about location anyway, so none of the people buying wisely would be hurt all that much, which is kind of how a market is supposed to work, no?

[Cletus Miller]

Originally posted by sebastian_dangerfield
Really? The flippers were that much of the market?

In a lot of places, yes. There are several new condo buildings in Chicago where, a few months after the initial closings, about 30% of the units are listed for re-sale. Parts of Florida and Las Vegas are likely worse. No doubt, the foreclosures in Michigan ad Ohio aren't being driven by flippers.

[SlaveNoMore]

Cletus Miller
A significant percentage (perhaps most) of the foreclosures are on "investor" properties. If there's no one living in them and no hope of flipping, then there's no reason to make payments. Make no payments for 6 months and don't return calls from teh lender, what else is the lender going to do?

Sit on a portfolio of useless REO? Or more likely do a workout and eat half the UPB?

[Did you just call me Coltrane?]

Originally posted by Cletus Miller
In a lot of places, yes. There are several new condo buildings in Chicago where, a few months after the initial closings, about 30% of the units are listed for re-sale. Parts of Florida and Las Vegas are likely worse. No doubt, the foreclosures in Michigan ad Ohio aren't being driven by flippers.

Yet, Chicago hasn't really been hit that hard. We really never had the huge run-up that Florida/Cal/Phx/Vegas did, so prices have leveled off substantially, but not significantly dropped.

ETA: although maybe that's not the case for fungible high-rise condos.

[Cletus Miller]

Originally posted by SlaveNoMore
Sit on a portfolio of useless REO? Or more likely do a workout and eat half the UPB?

Hey, the borrower has to call you back first. And taking back the real estate allows some deferral on recognizing the loss. Plus, if the 2d lien is with another lender (common) then you don't have to deal with them, too.

In any given situation, of course a workout is the better course for almost everyone. I take the "bailout" as being a pre-negotiated framework for workouts with a pre-determined set of qualifcations on the borrower side. Let's the lenders plow through a bunch of re-negotiations using trained apes.

[sebastian_dangerfield]

Originally posted by Cletus Miller
In a lot of places, yes. There are several new condo buildings in Chicago where, a few months after the initial closings, about 30% of the units are listed for re-sale. Parts of Florida and Las Vegas are likely worse. No doubt, the foreclosures in Michigan ad Ohio aren't being driven by flippers.

Has that case where the Fed Judge dismissed a foreclosure action because the owners of the securities couldn't get the original mortgage papers caused any reverberations? I read the ruling and, after cracking up a bit, thought "Wow, what a gift for lawyers. All those billable hours tracking that stuff through the pipeline."

[Cletus Miller]

Originally posted by Did you just call me Coltrane?
Yet, Chicago hasn't really been hit that hard. We really never had the huge run-up that Florida/Cal/Phx/Vegas did, so prices have leveled off substantially, but not significantly dropped.

ETA: although maybe that's not the case for fungible high-rise condos.

Prices haven't really started dropping yet, but the re-sale market (and the new market, too; Trump apparently hasn't signed a contract on anything in months) for DT condos is pretty much D-E-D. Houses in my (city) neighborhood are lingering for quite a while and a number have had modest price reductions.