Politics As Usual

[The Larry Davis Experience]

Originally posted by Hank Chinaski
You called charging? You must have grown up in the same suburb as Ty.

It's not like clueless honky basketball players come from just one suburb, man. We are everywhere. When one of us falls, another rises to take his place and tries to disallow a nasty Darryl Dawkins-style dunk with a timely 3 seconds call.

[radio advertisement disclaimer voice]This is not to say Ty is clueless or a honky.[/radio advertisement disclaimer voice]

[The Larry Davis Experience]

Originally posted by Shape Shifter
Interesting that there has been little discussion there has been of Bush's speech, here or elsewhere, especially when one takes into account how seldom Bush addresses the nation. Honestly, I tried to watch it, but it was too predictable, even for prime time. It was nothing more than the "everything's fine here" that we've all heard before. I'm starting to think of this as the Brobeck Administration.

Good line on the Brobeck thing. Bush kinda looks like Tower, if you squint a little. OK, maybe not. Still a good line.

One thing I read differently in light of Bush's speech was this story, which seems to contradict his emphasis on how sovereign the Iraqi interim govt will be. I'm not sure I follow this article's point, since the sinister appointees wielding power behind the curtains are still Iraqi, just like the appointees to the interim government. But it certainly suggests that understanding the new govt's authority isn't going to be as simple as tracing lines on an org chart.

Also, without a govt to negotiate with there still has been no formulation of a security forces agreement to govern the interaction between the US troops and the new govt once the CPA is dissolved. That will be an interesting drafting process to watch once they turn to it next month (I assume).

Originally posted by Sidd Finch

and all they can do* is claim some connection to 9/11.

I thought for a while that the presence or absence of a connection mattered to advocates and apologists on the right, but that was all window dressing and distraction. This administration and its supporters are operating from the premise that September 11, by being so unspeakably horrible, provides a blanket justification for any sort of abuse we care to dish out to anyone, innocent or not. Our status as victims absolves us from any moral responsibility, and any criticism is met with assertions of victimhood. Everything is permitted because we saw the bodies falling from the windows.

This is why no one pushing the war needs (or is particularly bothered by the lack of) a connection between September 11 and Iraq, or the animals who murdered Nick Berg and the prisoners in Abu Graib. We're not operating in a cause and effect universe anymore -- it's all about the saved and unsaved, believers and infidels. Our suffering has sanctified us and made us righteous in our fury. How can you argue with that?

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally posted by sgtclub
http://www.suntimes.com/output/elect...s-daley26.html

[Mayor Daley scolds Kerry over Bush "training wheels" comment.]

I actually thought the comment was hilarious - does that make me more of a Bush hater than Daley?

What the fvck is wrong with Daley? It was an off-the-record joke that was fvnny enovgh that reporters told Drvdge anyway. Since when is an off-the-record joke a sign of hate? What is this covntry coming to if a politician can't tell an off-the-record joke?

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally posted by Mister_Ruysbroeck
This rule.

The 9/11 pictures weren't edited into links. The pics of burned corpses were.

I received the following (edited to remove identifying information) in reaction to the 9/11 picture:

• The picture posted ... was exactly the kind (for all I know it may be the very one) that so upset me on 9/12/01. ... It literally took my breath away (and not in a good way), and made me shudder.
  
  I'd be fine with never seeing that picture again.

Out of common respect for people who were in NYC or Va. on 9/11, or who lost people, or who took it hard, I would ask that anyone think twice about posting pictures like that again. That said, I don't see any point in replacing it with a link now.

[Not Me]

Originally posted by Mister_Ruysbroeck
ETA: I am obviously talking about the burned corpses pic. I don't think the jumper pics violate the graphic violence rule. They are extremely distasteful, but they don't depict graphic violence.

Distasteful? If I posted it and made a joke about it that would be distasteful.

I posted it out of respect for those who died that day. If it had been me, I would want that image burned into the mind of every American so that my death could be avenged.

If anything, the aversion to these photos shows how it is easier to forget those who died that day and very hard to remember them. Especially to remember just how horrific it must have been for them.

[Not Me]

Originally posted by Tyrone Slothrop
I received the following (edited to remove identifying information) in reaction to the 9/11 picture:

• The picture posted ... was exactly the kind (for all I know it may be the very one) that so upset me on 9/12/01. ... It literally took my breath away (and not in a good way), and made me shudder.
  
  I'd be fine with never seeing that picture again.

Out of common respect for people who were in NYC or Va. on 9/11, or who lost people, or who took it hard, I would ask that anyone think twice about posting pictures like that again. That said, I don't see any point in replacing it with a link now.

Yes, it is easier not to look at the photo. Easier to just put out of your mind what it must have been like.

I replaced the pic with a link. Return to your comfortable lives, now.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally posted by Not Me
Distasteful? If I posted it and made a joke about it that would be distasteful.

I posted it out of respect for those who died that day. If it had been me, I would want that image burned into the mind of every American so that my death could be avenged.

If anything, the aversion to these photos shows how it is easier to forget those who died that day and very hard to remember them. Especially to remember just how horrific it must have been for them.

That photo shows someone's son -- or father, or friend -- moments from a horrible death. Not wanting to see it may reflect that someone remembers that day all too well. Insisting that others need to see these pictures is obtuse, rude and inconsiderate. It is also extremely trollish, in light of the fact that a few weeks ago you were saying:

Originally posted by Not Me
Did you need to see the people jump from the WTC to know the horror of what they must have been going through? Did you fucking need to see it? Is just hearing it not enough for you to get the effect?

That is my point. What is wrong with people that they cannot understand these things without visual stimuli.

What is wrong with people indeed. Your act is wearing thin.

[Atticus Grinch]

Originally posted by Not Me
I posted it out of respect for those who died that day. If it had been me, I would want that image burned into the mind of every American so that my death could be avenged.

I'm curious* --- if the entire family of a civilian casualty in Iraq were to swear eternal vengeance on the Americans, would you chalk that up to the bloodthirst of Islam? Or maybe the image of the death of an anonymous brown person is harder to burn into your mind.

*Not really.

[sgtclub]

Originally posted by Atticus Grinch
Or maybe the image of the death of an anonymous brown person is harder to burn into your mind.

*Not really.

This not so subtle racist reference was entirely uncalled for.

[taxwonk]

Originally posted by Tyrone Slothrop
What the fvck is wrong with Daley? It was an off-the-record joke that was fvnny enovgh that reporters told Drvdge anyway. Since when is an off-the-record joke a sign of hate? What is this covntry coming to if a politician can't tell an off-the-record joke?

Dalye just needs to get his name mentioned in the national press on occasion and it's been a while. It's tough when you're Daddy was a kingmaker and you can't even run your own county.

[Not Me]

Originally posted by Sidd Finch
I must have missed the memo. Did we finally discover a link between Iraq and Al Qaeda? Did someone tie the Abu Ghraib prisoners to 9/11? Was the Iraqi general that US soldiers murdered* the hijackers' secret commander?

Sidd, it is about getting a sense of perspective here. You call humiliation torture. That is ridiculous.

We will never win the war on terrorism with bombs and bullets. As long as the political institutions and economics of the middle east stay they way they were pre-Iraq, new terrorists will be born as fast as we can kill them.

The only thing that has a snowball's chance in hell of working to reduce terrorism is to change the middle east. It needs to be a more secular and less oppressive place to live with a viable middle class. If we can achieve our goals in Iraq, this will be a start to changing the middle east for the better.

[Not Me]

Originally posted by Atticus Grinch
I'm curious* --- if the entire family of a civilian casualty in Iraq were to swear eternal vengeance on the Americans, would you chalk that up to the bloodthirst of Islam? Or maybe the image of the death of an anonymous brown person is harder to burn into your mind.

There were "brown" people, as you call them, killed on 9/11, too, you racist fuck. All Americans are not white in case you haven't noticed.

I am amazed how you can equate the intentional killing of civilians on 9/11 with accidental civilian casualties in Iraq.

[dtb]

Originally posted by Not Me
Yes, it is easier not to look at the photo. Easier to just put out of your mind what it must have been like.

I replaced the pic with a link. Return to your comfortable lives, now.

OK, I'll fess up. It was I who sent that pm to Ty. I don't need any visual reminder of that day, trust me. Barely a day goes by that I don't think about the horror of that day and the dread and fear I felt. I need to be able to block it out to get on with my day-to-day life; if I didn't, I don't think I could leave my house. I'm not kidding. I can feel the pit in my stomach like it was yesterday when I look out my office window and see the gaping hole in the downtown skyline from the absence of the towers (where I once worked). I don't need continuing visual evidence of the unspeakable suffering those people went through to keep it in my memory; much in the same way I didn't need to see the video of that poor kid's beheading.

To each his (or in my case, her) own, I guess, but I think it's disrespectful to the memory of the person depicted in that photo. But, by all means, use it as your soapbox.

[Atticus Grinch]

Originally posted by Not Me
I am amazed how you can equate the intentional killing of civilians on 9/11 with accidental civilian casualties in Iraq.

I, too, am amazed at the fantastical creations that emerge full-grown from your mind.