Still Hating America.

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally posted by Sidd Finch
Presumably, Hank also believes that, since Iraq was firing on US warplanes, it would have made no difference if Iraq also blew up a few passenger jets flying in the US.

OTOH, Hank may still believe that Iraq did just that on 9/11. I'm not sure how to address that one, so I'll leave it to you, Ty.

I actually agree with you and Ty that putting our military in harm's way to protect civilians here is the reason we should use the military. That's why we invaded Iraq.

[Secret_Agent_Man]

Originally posted by SlaveNoMore
For perspective - since the AP doesn't have any - might I just chime in and point out that the U.S. death toll was 3,289 in the only 113 DAY Spanish-American War?

Comes from charging up hills at entrenched positions. . .

S_A_M

P.S. And coming not even a generation after the Civil War, that toll seemed pretty mild.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally posted by Hank Chinaski
I actually agree with you and Ty that putting our military in harm's way to protect civilians here is the reason we should use the military. That's why we invaded Iraq.

That would make sense if there was any reason to believe that Iraq posed a threat to civilians in the U.S., moreso than, say, Pakistan, China or Zimbabwe.

[Secret_Agent_Man]

Originally posted by Hank Chinaski
The Germans sinking those boats headed to its enemies was no different than Iraq targetting our jets pre-war. If one was an act of war they both were.

Well, assuming those were Acts of War -- as they were -- how much of a threat did they really pose to truth, justice, and the American way?

How many pilots or planes did we lose over the skies of Iraq while enforcing the no-fly zone? Not quite comparable.

S_A_M

P.S. By that standard, China, the Soviets, and the U.S. engage in Acts of War against each other on a regular basis -- yet we haven't chosen to invade each other yet.

[Spanky]

Originally posted by Shape Shifter
After they bombed Pearl Harbor we really didn't have a choice.

I see like me, you learned much of what you know from Animal House.

[Secret_Agent_Man]

Originally posted by Penske_Account
It was certainly part of a loosely coordinated larger pan-radical arab/Islamofacist conspiracy, so pre-liberation Iraq bears some responsibility.

Still trying to grab some credit for the VRWC?

S_A_M

[Secret_Agent_Man]

Originally posted by Hank Chinaski
I actually agree with you and Ty that putting our military in harm's way to protect civilians here is the reason we should use the military. That's why we invaded Iraq.

In the spirit of bipartisanship, I agree that we had absolutely no choice but to invade Iraq to create a Venus fly-trap for the terrorists overseas. I request that the GOP reciprocate by making this exact argument a central theme of the 2008 campaign.

S_A_M

[Spanky]

1) Annual testing. These tests have to be long enough and compressive enough so in order to teach to the test you have to teach the subject.

2) No more social promotion - kids that don't pass are given the chance to go to summer school and then retry. If they don't succeed they are not held back but put in special schools until if and when they catch up again.

3) Teachers are judged by how much students improve in their class depending on these exams. No teacher can be fired for one or two bad years, and without being tried in a few different teaching environments. Teachers are also compared to the performance of other teachers not to some random standard. The main purpose of the exam is not to fire a lot of teachers. The purpose of the exam is so good teachers are recognized and teachers that aren't doing so well can realize that and learn what other teachers are doing better. You just fire the ones that are way down on the bell curve. Since the stats are public these teachers will probably quit on their own anyway.

4) Teachers' can not be fired because of what they say in class, for 'disrespecting authority", for being unpopular or pissing off parents, or for their methods of teaching, or any other irrelevant reason. They are purely judged on their success (of course all of this is with in reason).

5) The only requirement given to teachers is that they educate, and it is up to them how they do it. It is not fair to tell them what they must do and then tell them how they must do it. They must be free to educate the students in whatever way works best for them.

6) No class should have more than twenty students.

7) Teachers who elect to teach troubled students, or teach in tough schools should get a bonus. Teacher's whose students show more progress than other teacher's students get bonuses.


One through three will be tough to get by the teachers unions. Four and five will be tough to get by parent’s groups and legislators who like to micromanage. Six and Seven will be tough to get by the Republicans (because it will be expensive).

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally posted by Secret_Agent_Man
In the spirit of bipartisanship, I agree that we had absolutely no choice but to invade Iraq to create a Venus fly-trap for the terrorists overseas. I request that the GOP reciprocate by making this exact argument a central theme of the 2008 campaign.

Sir, you do great honor to Penske's spirit of bipartisanship.

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally posted by Secret_Agent_Man
In the spirit of bipartisanship, I agree that we had absolutely no choice but to invade Iraq to create a Venus fly-trap for the terrorists overseas. I request that the GOP reciprocate by making this exact argument a central theme of the 2008 campaign.

S_A_M

you don't think McCain will still support the invasion? Rudy? you're nuts. Again, our party deals with reality and the public will understand that. It knows that the daydream days of dealing with terrorism by shooting rockets at mountains are over, or we're over.

[Adder]

Originally posted by Sidd Finch
Incredibly enough, Americans have become conditioned to expect that the death toll in a war now will be lower than it was a century ago.

It's weird -- Americans have this notion that superpower status, tanks, flak jackets, jets, APCs, and a vast range of other very expensive military technology is supposed to accomplish something.

Right, but Slave's basic point is correct. Or at least what I take to be his basic point is correct - the level of U.S. casualities in Iraq do not suggest that it is a place where our military might is overwhelmed.

On the other hand, the level of non-U.S. casualities might.

[Penske_Account]

This makes no sense.

[Adder]

Originally posted by Penske_Account
This makes no sense.

You don't need to include this disclaimer. I all know to assume that this is true of anything you say.

[SlaveNoMore]

Secret_Agent_Man
In the spirit of bipartisanship, I agree that we had absolutely no choice but to invade Iraq to create a Venus fly-trap for the terrorists overseas. I request that the GOP reciprocate by making this exact argument a central theme of the 2008 campaign.

The opposite being the Dem theme of 2008 - as already being articulated by Obama, et. al. - that if they win the election, we'll be fighting over here.

[SlaveNoMore]

Adder
Right, but Slave's basic point is correct. Or at least what I take to be his basic point is correct - the level of U.S. casualities in Iraq do not suggest that it is a place where our military might is overwhelmed.

On the other hand, the level of non-U.S. casualities might.

While every single loss (death AND injury) is tragic, it is importance to look at these numbers in context.

3,100 over nearly 4 years is a remarkably low number, yet the AP, Reuters and the AFP trumpet it as if it represents some bloody rout.

In 2003 alone, over 35,000 people died from the friggin' heat