Politics: Where we struggle to kneel in the muck.

[baltassoc]

Originally posted by baltassoc
I'm thinking so far Kerry is handing Bush his ass. It was like he laid a trap. Bush just keeps saying over and over, Iraq was the right thing to do, it was the right thing to do, Kerry can say he would have done something else but it was the right thing to do, then BAM! Kerry comes out with outsourcing capturing Bin Laden to a couple of Afgan warlords while the US shifts focus and goes to Iraq. I'm not sure it was fair, but it was a strong move.

I'm mixed on the DeGaulle story - it was good, but would have been better if it had been any country but France.

[Not Me]

Originally posted by SlaveNoMore
NRO seems to think Bush is angry and kicking it up.

That last pont that Bush made about North Korea and keeping China in the talks was a good one. I just don't think that joe six pack undecided voter understands the issue.

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally posted by baltassoc
I'm thinking so far Kerry is handing Bush his ass. It was like he laid a trap. Bush just keeps saying over and over, Iraq was the right thing to do, it was the right thing to do, Kerry can say he would have done something else but it was the right thing to do, then BAM! Kerry comes out with outsourcing capturing Bin Laden to a couple of Afgan warlords while the US shifts focus and goes to Iraq. I'm not sure it was fair, but it was a strong move.

go back to greedy politics board circa 4 years ago. all the libs thought gore handed Bush his ass. turns out they were biased and wrong. I'm just saying your opinion isn't that insightful maybe. I don't mean that in a mean way.

[SlaveNoMore]

baltassoc
I'm thinking so far Kerry is handing Bush his ass.

This is why these debates are meaningless.

Because in my opinion, Bush is steamrollering home the point of what a wishy-washy do-nothing Kerry has been and will be.

Everyone already decided ahead of time who "won"

[Santorum]

Originally posted by sgtclub
I'm listening on the radio and it sounds pretty even, but I've talked to GOPers who are watcing on TV and they think Bush is getting beat.

The visuals are not helping Bush. The look on his face as he contemplates answers looks confused, and he's doing a fair amount of contemplation. Kerry ain't Cicero, but on TV Bush is helping him look a little like it.

[Greedy,Greedy,Greedy]

Originally posted by baltassoc
I'm thinking so far Kerry is handing Bush his ass. It was like he laid a trap. Bush just keeps saying over and over, Iraq was the right thing to do, it was the right thing to do, Kerry can say he would have done something else but it was the right thing to do, then BAM! Kerry comes out with outsourcing capturing Bin Laden to a couple of Afgan warlords while the US shifts focus and goes to Iraq. I'm not sure it was fair, but it was a strong move.

Everyone's going to call this one for their own, because mid-way through, Bush got back to the Rove message and just kept repeating over and over again the same stuff we've been hearing - it's all about Kerry, not about Bush. Kerry stayed on message and seemed intelligent, and he struck a good balance between going after Bush and digging in deeper on policy issues.

So, my read: Kerry wins in the Florida audience and in the Plains states, each of which are dominated by more issues oriented voters. Bush may gain some traction in the southwestern and southern states that were issues 2 weeks ago - the same places he got a bounce after the RNC.

Who wins in Ohio and Michigan? I don't know. Let's see what the polls say. (And, of course, if this is debate class Bush was handed his ass - but it's not, and the shallow, on-message performance of the last half was what Rove wanted to see)

[Diane_Keaton]

Originally posted by Santorum
The visuals are not helping Bush. The look on his face as he contemplates answers looks confused, and he's doing a fair amount of contemplation. Kerry ain't Cicero, but on TV Bush is helping him look a little like it.

And the writing with the Pen thing I think made him look more Presidential.

Anyway....Dubya did so poorly you could go on forever saying why. Here’s just some observations:

To the relentless suggestions by Kerry that the President has no allies in the world: the President didn’t bother to talk about his excellent relationships with other leaders until the very end where he mentioned in another context Putin (and he had to be directly asked about him). No mention of things achieved by working globally. No mention of relationships with allies. Not even a mention of Tony Blair for Chrissakes.

Lost opportunity to talk about Afghanistan. He could have had a great explanation in response to Kerry’s repeated “You let Afghan Warlords do the work for us.” The President didn’t even respond once.

A fuller explanation of how the 6 party talks would fail if bilateral talks were pursued with North Korea.

Um…a little too long winded about all the things he admires about Kerry. Dubya’s admiration for Kerry seemed to be one of the only topics he got excited about.

A better explanation of HOW Kerry changes his positions would have been nice. The “Wrong War; Wrong Time” got old and was not very strong.

All the talk about where the GREATEST terrorist threats are located: how about mentioning right on US soil? Excuse me but were we not simultaneously attacked – the center of commerce and even our Pentagon, with another plane headed for the White House. And the continued threat and sleeper cells…..

One of Dubya’s worst “comebacks”: “Hey; I know who Osama Bin Ladin Is!!!!!” Well, that’s nice.

Ugh.

Diane

[SlaveNoMore]

Diane_Keaton
Anyway....Dubya did so poorly you could go on forever saying why. Here’s just some observations:

Neither candidate drooled. Meaning it was a draw.

Kerry cannot afford a draw. He's down 8 points.

[Not Me]

Originally posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy [Carl Rove is the source of all evil on this earth]

You aren't an undecided and neither am I. It doesn't matter what we think.

[bold_n_brazen]

Originally posted by baltassoc
I'm thinking so far Kerry is handing Bush his ass. It was like he laid a trap. Bush just keeps saying over and over, Iraq was the right thing to do, it was the right thing to do, Kerry can say he would have done something else but it was the right thing to do, then BAM! Kerry comes out with outsourcing capturing Bin Laden to a couple of Afgan warlords while the US shifts focus and goes to Iraq. I'm not sure it was fair, but it was a strong move.

Every time Kerry said "Afghan War Lords" I started to snicker. Not sure why, but something about that phrase struck me as very, very funny.

[Shape Shifter]

Originally posted by Not Me
Me, but I am working, too, so can't give it my full attention.

I think they are both saying the right things for their bases, but I don't think this will have any effect on the undecideds. Neither has made a fool out of themselves.

Hi, sweetheart. I missed you at this evening's conference.

[bilmore]

Originally posted by SlaveNoMore
Neither candidate drooled. Meaning it was a draw.

Kerry cannot afford a draw. He's down 8 points.

Bush can't do the public speaking thing for shit.

Kerry can, but has nothing to say.

So,

Presentation: Kerry.

Substance: Bush.


Kerry wins four points nationally.

[Say_hello_for_me]

Originally posted by bilmore

Kerry wins four points nationally.

I'm afraid that's about my take, give or take 4 points, and Diane stated the reasoning pretty well. In other words, I don't think he picked up undecideds.

There were so many better things to say, and his defensive justification for the Iraq war was a point he could have made in the beginning, the middle and the end, rather than throughout. He totally fumbled the coalition-building thing. There is a way to point out that America has historically provided the bulk of helpful outside combat forces since WWII without even insulting the French (NTTAWWT), but he instead seemed to accept the 90% number on its face, as if it is an aberration from history.



Hello

[SlaveNoMore]

bilmore
Kerry wins four points nationally.

If past history is an indicator - You ain't exactly Nostradamus, pal.


More importantly, Bernie walk-off homer. Yanks clinch home-field throughout the playoffs.

[bilmore]

Originally posted by SlaveNoMore
If past history is an indicator - You ain't exactly Nostradamus, pal.

You judge Nostradamusness by the future, not the past, remember?

We'll check this on Monday.