Meet your new thread, same as the old thread.

[Secret_Agent_Man]

Originally posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy
We retook Kasserine Pass within a week of losing it, and completely overhauled our strategy and tactics as well as our command structure. Eisenhower had the heads of a number of commanders, and learned very quickly. Within 6 weeks, the new commander, Patton, had reversed the momentum and was mopping up the German presence in Tunisia.

So Bush has now had four years in Iraq, and four months of the surge, and you're complaining that we're not patient. Kasserine Pass indeed.

True Spanky.

You don't really want to be making this comparison. Bush suffers.

S_A_M

P.S. I've been meaning to ask you -- Remember that you argued before in the context of the surge that -- IF more troops would have helped in 2003 (like all the "liberals" in the "Democrat Party" were saying) there is no reason they would not help fix things in 2007?

Ok. So, IF the surge fails now in 2007 -- doesn't that mean your men Bush and Rummy were right about troop levels all along, and more troops wouldn't have mattered in 2003/04?

Take heart!

[Greedy,Greedy,Greedy]

Originally posted by Secret_Agent_Man
True Spanky.

You don't really want to be making this comparison. Bush suffers.

S_A_M

P.S. I've been meaning to ask you -- Remember that you argued before in the context of the surge that -- IF more troops would have helped in 2003 (like all the "liberals" in the "Democrat Party" were saying) there is no reason they would not help fix things in 2007?

Ok. So, IF the surge fails now in 2007 -- doesn't that mean your men Bush and Rummy were right about troop levels all along, and more troops wouldn't have mattered in 2003/04?

Take heart!

Fact is, with multiple militias now entrenched and supplied, what we should be learning from the surge is that the troop levels being realistically discussed won't do the job. If Bush wants to "win" this war, he needs an Iraqi national government with a firm hand an at least a million troops. And he needs a counterinsurgency strategy that includes a very large number of Arabic speaking troops scrubbing the landscape while other troops fully secure all the borders.

Otherwise, he's just throwing fuel on the fire. A foreign power doesn't prevail in a local civil war through air power and control of bases in a few population centers.

Alternatively, time to declare Kurdistan separate, throw them adequate support so we maintain a strong US presence in the region, and let the south start resolving some of its own issues.

[Gattigap]

Originally posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy


Alternatively, time to declare Kurdistan separate, throw them adequate support so we maintain a strong US presence in the region, and let the south start resolving some of its own issues.

Clearly there's not an easy or solution to the Kurdistan issue, but a teensy part of me wants to see this happen just to watch the Turks go completely batshit.

[taxwonk]

Originally posted by Gattigap
I don't get it. Who is saying that "Its Israel's Fault"?

Club said it. Aren't you paying attention?

[taxwonk]

Originally posted by sgtclub
I must have been away too long, but I'm not getting anything anyone's posted today. Do retards know they're retarded?

We call them "Special Needs" now.

[Greedy,Greedy,Greedy]

Originally posted by Gattigap
Clearly there's not an easy or solution to the Kurdistan issue, but a teensy part of me wants to see this happen just to watch the Turks go completely batshit.

I think we can still influence the choice of whether or not Kurdistan is part of the civil war. What we can't do, unless we're ready to deploy many times the numbers of troops we have now, is have a meaningful and lasting influence on the civil war's outcome. At the levels we're engaged, we may well do more harm than good for the outcomes we want.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally posted by Hank Chinaski
ironically, it seems those that are most retarded are the ones who tend to know, even though they are supposedly dumber that their more borderline compatriots. I know several "dull normals" that speak right up, like they should have a forum.

Of course, the above does not explain the curious confidence of several of the liberals that post here.

We're all spooked by your fragile vulnerability.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally posted by Gattigap
Clearly there's not an easy or solution to the Kurdistan issue, but a teensy part of me wants to see this happen just to watch the Turks go completely batshit.

That's a great idea. We haven't done enough damage already, so let's take our second-best ally in the region and really piss them off.

[Gattigap]

Originally posted by Tyrone Slothrop
That's a great idea. We haven't done enough damage already, so let's take our second-best ally in the region and really piss them off.

Hey, I said "a teensy part." I don't disagree. That said, do you see this going in a different direction? I'm becoming more pessimistic that the centre simply isn't going to hold in Baghdad, and our forces -- whether 160k, or Bush's "Korea-clone" 50k, withdraws to the periphery in the north or in Kuwait or something.

Maybe they all go to Kirkuk, which might placate the Turks to some degree, but by that time Kurdistan is de facto independent anyway.

Clearly, I don't have a good appreciation for the Turk/Kurdish dynamic. Yes, I know that Kurds are spread across Iraq/Iran/Turkey, and I know that their separatist notions in Turkey are and have been a real problem. But with Kurdistan operating pretty much independently since the early 90s, I don't see the domino effect that I keep reading about, which is supposedly what Turkey fears most about this stuff.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

• Massachusetts lawmakers on Thursday blocked a proposed constitutional amendment banning gay marriage from reaching voters, a stunning victory for gay marriage advocates and a devastating blow to efforts to reverse a historic 2003 court ruling legalizing same-sex marriage.
  
  The 45-151 vote means Massachusetts remains the only state in the nation to allow same-sex couples to marry. The question needed the approval of 50 of 200 lawmakers in consecutive sessions to advance to the 2008 ballot. It got the first approval at the end of last session in January with 62 votes.
  
  As the tally was announced, the halls of the Statehouse erupted in cheers and applause from supporters of gay marriage gathered outside the House chambers.

AP

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally posted by Gattigap
Hey, I said "a teensy part." I don't disagree. That said, do you see this going in a different direction? I'm becoming more pessimistic that the centre simply isn't going to hold in Baghdad, and our forces -- whether 160k, or Bush's "Korea-clone" 50k, withdraws to the periphery in the north or in Kuwait or something.

Maybe they all go to Kirkuk, which might placate the Turks to some degree, but by that time Kurdistan is de facto independent anyway.

Clearly, I don't have a good appreciation for the Turk/Kurdish dynamic. Yes, I know that Kurds are spread across Iraq/Iran/Turkey, and I know that their separatist notions in Turkey are and have been a real problem. But with Kurdistan operating pretty much independently since the early 90s, I don't see the domino effect that I keep reading about, which is supposedly what Turkey fears most about this stuff.

Turkey doesn't want Kurds in Iraq free to support Kurdish separatists in Turkey, and sees this as something like an existensial problem for the Turkish state. But I don't think Turkey is that much better off with a failed Iraq state and a functionally independent Kurdish north. (Somewhat better, because it's not nominally a Kurdish nation.) In our present role, we act as a check on the Kurds, and that may be as good as it's going to get for Turkey.

[Greedy,Greedy,Greedy]

Originally posted by Tyrone Slothrop
Turkey doesn't want Kurds in Iraq free to support Kurdish separatists in Turkey, and sees this as something like an existensial problem for the Turkish state. But I don't think Turkey is that much better off with a failed Iraq state and a functionally independent Kurdish north. (Somewhat better, because it's not nominally a Kurdish nation.) In our present role, we act as a check on the Kurds, and that may be as good as it's going to get for Turkey.

It's hard being both a Turkish state and a multinational state.

Turkey hasn't been a great place for the non-Turkish nationalities, and they've brought this upon themselves. We've somehow managed to be both Greek and Turkish allies, and now just need to pull of the same thing with the Kurds and Turks. But think of what the Middle East looks like with Shi'a control of all of Iraq, including Kurdistan.

[Greedy,Greedy,Greedy]

Originally posted by Tyrone Slothrop

• Massachusetts lawmakers on Thursday blocked a proposed constitutional amendment banning gay marriage from reaching voters, a stunning victory for gay marriage advocates and a devastating blow to efforts to reverse a historic 2003 court ruling legalizing same-sex marriage.
  
  The 45-151 vote means Massachusetts remains the only state in the nation to allow same-sex couples to marry. The question needed the approval of 50 of 200 lawmakers in consecutive sessions to advance to the 2008 ballot. It got the first approval at the end of last session in January with 62 votes.
  
  As the tally was announced, the halls of the Statehouse erupted in cheers and applause from supporters of gay marriage gathered outside the House chambers.

AP

I just wanted to keep that subject line alive.

[Mmmm, Burger (C.J.)]

Originally posted by Tyrone Slothrop

• Massachusetts lawmakers on Thursday blocked a proposed constitutional amendment banning gay marriage from reaching voters, a stunning victory for gay marriage advocates and a devastating blow to efforts to reverse a historic 2003 court ruling legalizing same-sex marriage.
  
  The 45-151 vote means Massachusetts remains the only state in the nation to allow same-sex couples to marry. The question needed the approval of 50 of 200 lawmakers in consecutive sessions to advance to the 2008 ballot. It got the first approval at the end of last session in January with 62 votes.
  
  As the tally was announced, the halls of the Statehouse erupted in cheers and applause from supporters of gay marriage gathered outside the House chambers.

AP

And a victory for democracy!

[Mmmm, Burger (C.J.)]

Originally posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy
I just wanted to keep that subject line alive.

You couldn't get something in there about Romney?

ETA: Or about Scooter Libby?