Politics As Usual

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally posted by SlaveNoMore
You know, this is such fucking bullshit.

Cutting a deal with Sistani and Sadr gets us (1) out of Najaf with less casualties, (2) makes us look "better" in the eyes of the Arab Street because we won't be blowing up their "sacred sites" (sacred because that's where they hide their snipers), and (3) further points us in the right direction of (A) getting out and (B) handing over the reins.

But you don't see this, right?

Let me guess - all of sudden you and your cronies are NOW saying we should go in there guns blazing, killing anyone in the way and take over the town. Which, of course, if we did, would be just horrible.

Just face it. it doesn't matter what anyone does over there - be it good, bad or ugly, you guys will find fault with it.

I'm getting tired of a President who's presiding over a clusterfuck and who either doesn't know that what we're actually doing over there is not what he's describing in his speeches, or can't be bothered to make sure it happens. What was that bullshit on April 13? I thought it would have been crazy to level Fallujah or Najaf, but I wasn't the one promising to bring justice to the people who killed the contractors and strung them from a bridge, or to Sadr for that matter. The real fuck-up is that we put ourselves in a position where Fallujah is a snakepit where well-armed former SEALs are at risk, and where Sadr can win the support of two-thirds of the country by staging an insurrection. In fact, Sadr only went off the deep end when we picked a fight with him by shutting down his newspaper and arresting his associates. Why did we pick that fight if we weren't willing to deal with what follows? All you're doing is arguing that the President was right to close the barn door now. Well, sure -- we wouldn't want an empty barn to be drafty.

eta: More from that April 13 press conference:

"Now is the time, and Iraq is the place, in which the enemies of the civilized world are testing the will of the civilized world. We must not waver."

"Over the last several decades, we've seen that any concession or retreat on our part will only embolden this enemy and invite more bloodshed. And the enemy has seen, over the last 31 months, that we will no longer live in denial or seek to appease them."

Originally posted by SlaveNoMore
You know, this is such fucking bullshit.

Just face it. it doesn't matter what anyone does over there - be it good, bad or ugly, you guys will find fault with it.

It's a great plan. Wish they'd done it sooner (i.e., before reality came and bit them on the ass in the form of x number of dead soldiers). The point is it contradicts all of the tough talk getting spewed out recently, as Ty pointed out. But this will be forgotten the next time someone comes on here to cream all over what a big strong man GWB is in word and deed. What happened to "bring it on?" Could it be the man was wrong?

[Replaced_Texan]

People, just don't talk about salvation and your personal savior on an airliner. Just don't. You will (a) freak people out, and (b) cause them to fear you.

Exhibit A -

Praying Preachers Ground Flight

NEW YORK (Reuters) - Two preachers grounded a flight leaving Buffalo, New York, after they frightened passengers by declaring the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks were a good reason to pray, officials said on Thursday.

One preacher told fellow passengers as the Continental Airlines plane taxied down the runway, "Your last breath on earth is the first one in heaven as long as you are born again and have Jesus in your heart," according to FBI (news - web sites) spokesman Paul Moskal.

Passengers on the Wednesday flight to Newark, New Jersey told a flight attendant, who alerted the plane's captain, officials said. The captain turned the plane around.

"They were sincere in their beliefs and were not malicious," Moskal said by telephone from Buffalo. "In the context of 9/11 it may not have been the best way to promote their religion."

The two Pentecostal ministers, Canadian nationals Yohan Heenatigala and Komal Singh, were questioned by the Federal Bureau of Investigation and later released and put on another flight, the spokesman said. They were traveling to attend a convention in Baltimore, Maryland.

Yes. Doubly so, do not prostyltize on an airliner in New York and connect it to 911. Bad, bad idea, which will result in you spending a lot of quality time with the FBI.

Originally posted by Replaced_Texan
The two Pentecostal ministers, Canadian nationals Yohan Heenatigala and Komal Singh

You had me going there until I read your made-up names for these guys. Nice one.

[Gin Rummy]

Originally posted by sgtclub
Slave, don't waste your energy, it's pointless.

I belive that it was the sexy siren of the right Ann Coulter who said,

"The blissful part of being a liberal democrat in the US is that history begins anew each morning and thus everyday the left can create a brand new narrative fully ignorant of and decimating the past as it actually occurred."

The leftist Demos hate the US of A and everything it stands for and will blame this nation and its esteemed leaders first for in everything until we turnover our nation in grand Marxist-Leninist One World Government style to the UN.

Which will happen over my dead body.

[Sidd Finch]

Originally posted by Tyrone Slothrop
"In Fallujah, coalition forces have suspended offensive operations, allowing members of the Iraqi Governing Council and local leaders to work on the restoration of central authority in that city. These leaders are communicating with the insurgents to ensure an orderly turnover of that city to Iraqi forces, so that the resumption of military action does not become necessary.

They are also insisting that those who killed and mutilated four American contract workers be handed over for trial and punishment.

In addition, members of the Governing Council are seeking to resolve the situation in the south. Al-Sadr must answer the charges against him and disband his illegal militia."

-- President Bush, April 13

eta: If he's going to say these things, and not follow through, it makes us weaker, not stronger. I'm not saying we cut a bad deal today, all things considered, but if that's the case he shouldn't have been talking out of his ass like that on April 13.

So because Bush was stupid and talked tough we need to "stay the course," no matter how badly it harms us?

Sorry, Ty, but I prefer that Bush cut his losses instead of saying "I was talking out of my ass but, goddamn it, I will not look like a wimp!" We can't rewind to eliminate the things he said, but it is simply not worth the cost to follow through on his threats. Yes, we look weak. But destroying half of Fallujah -- which is what it would take to make good on Bush's threats -- would be far worse.

I do have some doubts about the people we are putting in control, not to mention arming, especially in Fallujah.

[Sidd Finch]

Originally posted by Gin Rummy
The blissful part of being a liberal democrat in the US is that history begins anew each morning and thus everyday the left can create a brand new narrative fully ignorant of and decimating the past as it actually occurred.

Like how we all forgot what a hero McCarthy is?

I look at pix of Ann Coulter and think, man, what a waste of a potential stripper.

[Sidd Finch]

Originally posted by Tyrone Slothrop
eta: More from that April 13 press conference:

"Now is the time, and Iraq is the place, in which the enemies of the civilized world are testing the will of the civilized world. We must not waver."

"Over the last several decades, we've seen that any concession or retreat on our part will only embolden this enemy and invite more bloodshed. And the enemy has seen, over the last 31 months, that we will no longer live in denial or seek to appease them."

Apparently, at least in Velvet Coulter's eyes, Bush is a liberal Democrat for whom history has begun anew today, so he has forgotten what happened yesterday.

It's hardly a surprise. I'm old enough to remember when Bush thought nation-building was bad, fiscal prudence was good, and the government couldn't be trusted to run a candy store, let alone transform the Middle East.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally posted by Sidd Finch
So because Bush was stupid and talked tough we need to "stay the course," no matter how badly it harms us?

No, I think the decision made was the right one. And I thought that on April 13, too. Thought I was making that clear. My problem is with the stream of rhetoric from the top that has nothing to do with what's actually happening. We're seeing the same thing now with these promises that Iraq will become fully sovereign on June 30. That's fully sovereign in the sense that they won't be able to tell us to leave, etc. Talking about how resolute you are and how we won't back down, only makes it that much worse when (predictably) you do exactly that.

[Secret_Agent_Man]

Originally posted by Sidd Finch
So because Bush was stupid and talked tough we need to "stay the course," no matter how badly it harms us?

Sorry, Ty, but I prefer that Bush cut his losses instead of saying "I was talking out of my ass but, goddamn it, I will not look like a wimp!" We can't rewind to eliminate the things he said, but it is simply not worth the cost to follow through on his threats. Yes, we look weak. But destroying half of Fallujah -- which is what it would take to make good on Bush's threats -- would be far worse.

I do have some doubts about the people we are putting in control, not to mention arming, especially in Fallujah.

Slave and Sidd . . . strange bedfellows indeed.

S_A_M

[Secret_Agent_Man]

Originally posted by Sidd Finch
I look at pix of Ann Coulter and think, man, what a waste of a potential stripper.

Remember that TV miniseries "V" from the early 1980s -- where the alien reptilian race disguised itself as an alien human-like race?

Coulter makes me think of the scene where that good-looking brunette commander ate a live mouse (thus revealing their nature to the viewers). Something about the eyes and the smile.

S_A_M

[Atticus Grinch]

Originally posted by Gin Rummy

Four fewer inches of skirt and you can actually see the teeth in her vagina.

I will concede, however, that she could probably take Kinsley* in a fight. I think this is actually how conservatives settle intellectual arguments, and thus it's easy to see why Coulter is so admired.

*Selected for the mental image, not because of equivalence.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally posted by Atticus Grinch
I will concede, however, that she could probably take Kinsley in a fight.

Since he has Parkinson's, it does seem like the sort of fight she would pick.

[Not Me]

Originally posted by Tyrone Slothrop
eta: If he's going to say these things, and not follow through, it makes us weaker, not stronger. I'm not saying we cut a bad deal today, all things considered, but if that's the case he shouldn't have been talking out of his ass like that on April 13.

From what I have read, we are still pursuing the perpetrators of the murders of the 4 contractors. We have submitted a list of 25 names to the Iraqi patrols and they are supposedly actively looking for those people. The issue is not yet resolved, but that doesn't mean that it won't be resolved.

[Shape Shifter]

Originally posted by Sidd Finch
Like how we all forgot what a hero McCarthy is?

C'mon, it's not like he was Saddam Hussein or anything. Get some perspective.