Politics: Where we struggle to kneel in the muck. - Page 66

sebastian_dangerfield · 10-01-2004, 01:26 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Not Me
What do we need the moral authority for? To get help from France and Germany? Yeah, I am sure that if only we had France and Germany on our side, we could win the war on islamic terrorism.

Get real.

And Iraq is a much more effective strategy because?

Shape Shifter · 10-01-2004, 01:27 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by sebastian_dangerfield
The debate ended roughly 15 or so hours ago. How scientifically accurate do you think those numbers are? Fuck polls. I hate Bush and Kerry and I'd score it this way:

Bush won the first 30 min.

Kerry won the next 60 min.

If you prefer a football score, I'd say Kerry won 24-17. This morning I said Kerry won by a field goal. I now amend that after watching some streaming video. Bush looked like he'd shot all his talking points early and had no original thoughts later in the debate.

Oh, BTW, I don't know if its true, but MoveOn is alleging Gallup's owner is a Jesus Freak, so, in addition to discounting the polls because a poll based on something that took place 15 hrs ago - prior to most respondents' going to bed - is a piece of shit by necessity, its also worth considering the source.

I'd rethink offering poll numbers as proof of anything.

Agreed, and I point out that 3 other polls show Kerry as the clear winner.

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmp.../debate_rdp_32

Sebby, I know you like you're tax cut, but do you really want W appointing Supreme Court justices? A few of 'em are teeterin' on the brink (though I'd never pick one for a Death Pool -- they always seem to be able to teeter for a while) and the concept of a W-packed Supreme Court is just plain frightening.

I re-watched the debate on c-span, where they had full-time split screens showing both candidates. This is the impression I got of W.

eta: Faces of Frustration Video

Not Me · 10-01-2004, 01:28 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy
You missed the critical part on Afghanistan - that invading Iraq diverted attention from the critical fight in Afghanistan. This is the reality our soldiers in Afghanistan feel every day of the week. Bush's cavalier "we can do both" ignores the frustrations being faced on a daily basis by those fighting in this half-forgetten country that just happens to be more populous than Iraq and have tougher, more diverse terrain.

I didn't miss any points. I understand the Dem position is that iraq was the wrong war to fight. I think you are wrong. I think the only solution to the problems Islam has inflicted on this earth is to bring democracy to the middle east so that the people who live better lives and will be less focused on this religion and, thus, less focused on killing us.

You and I just disagree on the solution to islamic terrorism. We can't kill them all. More bombs in Afghanistan won't solve the terrorist mills in the Arab world. Democracy and capitalism in the middle east and a viable middle class is the only solution that will bring an end to the horrors that islam has wrought on the world.

sebastian_dangerfield · 10-01-2004, 01:31 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Shape Shifter
Agreed, and I point out that 3 other polls show Kerry as the clear winner.

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmp.../debate_rdp_32

Sebby, I know you like you're tax cut, but do you really want W appointing Supreme Court justices? A few of 'em are teeterin' on the brink (though I'd never pick one for a Death Pool -- they always seem to be able to teeter for a while) and the concept of a W-packed Supreme Court is just plain frightening.

I re-watched the debate on c-span, where they had full-time split screens showing both candidates. This is the impression I got of W.

I'm truly conflicted. Its fucking hard. My soul is ABB, but my fiscal conservative leanings are frightened by JFK. I may just close my eyes and mash my hand onto the levers and turn and walk out without looking at what I did. That way I can blame it on Jesus.

Not Me · 10-01-2004, 01:34 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by sebastian_dangerfield
And Iraq is a much more effective strategy because?

See my post supra to GGG. We can't kill all potential muslim terrorists. Some chick wearing a scarf living in a tent pumps out a new islamic terrorist as fast as we can kill them. The only solution to this problem is to bring democracy and capitalism and a middle class to the middle east. Give people hope for a better life and they will stop clinging to these extreme religions.

When your life sucks because you live in a totalitarian state run by mullahs who enforce their fucked up beyond belief beliefs on everyone by a fucking religious police force, you cling to idiotic beliefs like blowing your self up for the chance to fuck 72 virgins in heaven.

People who have good lives on earth don't think so much about an after life. They want to keep living and they aren't as susceptible to these cults.

Shape Shifter · 10-01-2004, 01:36 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by sebastian_dangerfield
I'm truly conflicted. Its fucking hard. My soul is ABB, but my fiscal conservative leanings are frightened by JFK. I may just close my eyes and mash my hand onto the levers and turn and walk out without looking at what I did. That way I can blame it on Jesus.

I hear you. But what is fiscally conservative about this? Somebody's gotta pay for this sooner or later.

SlaveNoMore · 10-01-2004, 01:37 PM

Quote:

Shape Shifter
This is the impression I got of W.

eta: Faces of Frustration Video

Who wouldn't be frustrated being forced to listen to that jackass for 90 minutes?

My god, I'm merely impressed Bush didn't walk over and slap him when he said that lie about the NYC subway.

sebastian_dangerfield · 10-01-2004, 01:38 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Not Me
See my post supra to GGG. We can't kill all potential muslim terrorists. Some chick wearing a scarf living in a tent pumps out a new islamic terrorist as fast as we can kill them. The only solution to this problem is to bring democracy and capitalism and a middle class to the middle east. Give people hope for a better life and they will stop clinging to these extreme religions.

When your life sucks because you live in a totalitarian state run by mullahs who enforce their fucked up beyond belief beliefs on everyone by a fucking religious police force, you cling to idiotic beliefs like blowing your self up for the chance to fuck 72 virgins in heaven.

People who have good lives on earth don't think so much about an after life. They want to keep living and they aren't as susceptible to these cults.

Islam is the problem.

Iraq was secular.

Now its full of Islam.

We did that.

We could have just fought Islam where it already was - where the terrorists who killed 3000 of us are still.

We're not doing that.

That's not explainable, morally or logically.

Iraq is a blunder.

Bad judgment should not be rewarded with four more years.

Say_hello_for_me · 10-01-2004, 01:38 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by ltl/fb
I liked the stuff about Poland being a crucial coalition member on TDS last night.

So the RNC did mass mailings in West Virginia and Arkansas that basically said if you vote for Democrats, they will ban the Bible? Charming.

Ever see the Wanderers? Don't fuck with the Polish?, er...

Gattigap · 10-01-2004, 01:39 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by SlaveNoMore
My god, I'm merely impressed Bush didn't walk over and slap him when he said that lie about the NYC subway.

I missed that part -- wasn't mentioned on the "truth squad" pieces I heard deconstructing the debate.

What was the lie?

Shape Shifter · 10-01-2004, 01:39 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by SlaveNoMore
Who wouldn't be frustrated being forced to listen to that jackass for 90 minutes?

My god, I'm merely impressed Bush didn't walk over and slap him when he said that lie about the NYC subway.

2, only the lie W told about there being 100,000-strong force of trained Iraqis to take over Iraqi security. The man can't open his mouth without telling a lie.

SlaveNoMore · 10-01-2004, 01:41 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Gattigap
I missed that part -- wasn't mentioned on the "truth squad" pieces I heard deconstructing the debate.

What was the lie?

That they closed the subways.

Apparently, Kerry can't tell the difference between the DNC and the RNC, and TCOTU and a shit town like Boston.

Shape Shifter · 10-01-2004, 01:43 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by SlaveNoMore
Apparently, James Lileks heard enough last night, and boy he seems ticked today.

Best part
But mostly I hate the debates because I simply cannot abide hearing certain statements I’ve been hearing over, and over, and over again. I can’t take any more talk about bringing allies to the table. Which ones? Brazil? Mynmar? Microfrickin’nesia?

I thought Microfrickin'nesia was already at the table, according to your coalition list. They sent some sea shells or something, as I remember.

sgtclub · 10-01-2004, 01:49 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Gattigap
TDS nailed the (uncanny!) similarities the same evening after Allawi's remarks. WaPo's falling down on the job.

Do you not think that there are legitimate reasons why what he says should be coordinated? National security reasons perhaps?

Tyrone Slothrop · 10-01-2004, 01:52 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Hank Chinaski
West Palm is not 100% Jewish Ty. And guess what? If you were a gentile living in a county that is 85% Jewish people over the age of 75, you might start agreeing with the Nazi parts of Buchanan's platform more then you do now.

In-laws visiting this weekend!

Comedy involves taking risks, Hank, but I wouldn't have gone there myself.