Patting the wrists, rolling the eyes.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally posted by Mmmm, Burger (C.J.)
uh, you ought to insert a "some" after the first that.

Duly noted. Some conservatives. Your cultural conservatives, say, but not your libertarians.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally posted by bilmore
If there's a bright spot out of all of this, it's that it has fostered continued polite and respectful dialogue about the issues. I know that I am always more inclined to give a listen to someone who is respectful than to someone who calls people in my party stupid, evil ass-fuckers over and over and over and . . .

I really feel badly for Michael Schiavo, who has been thrust onto the national stage by other people and trashed repeatedly. He didn't ask for this.

And I think the people who are exploiting this in the worst way are not Republicans per se, although their interests are aligned with the GOP right now and a quite a few GOP politicians are rushing to curry favor with them. The most fervid cultural conservatives have a commitment to their groups -- e.g., pro-life groups -- that transcends their relationship with the party. So, if you read my message carefully, you'd have seen that I said that "Tom DeLay's new pals" were doing the ass-fucking, and that I did not attribute it to the GOP. You drew that inference yourself. DeLay himself didn't really jump on the bandwagon until a few days ago.

[Diane_Keaton]

Originally posted by Tyrone Slothrop
I don't know the details about Michael Schiavo's relationship and kids, but I guess the man should have just put his life on hold..

What part of "nobody is saying he shouldn't have moved on" didn't you hear? The laughable part is your theory that anyone criticizing the decisions in this case is not respecting the "sanctity" of this marriage? You sound silly talking about the sanctity of a marriage where the man has a new wife and kids. Stop this nonsense. Also, I have heard a billion angles to this debate IRL and everyone seems thoughtful, passionate and genuine about their beliefs. Therefore, I am also adding that your "pro-Schiavo is a right wing conspiracy" is Stoopid.

[Mmmm, Burger (C.J.)]

Originally posted by Tyrone Slothrop
Duly noted. Some conservatives. Your cultural conservatives, say, but not your libertarians.

And not even your federalist conservatives, or your main-stream conservatives. You're right about whom the R party is currently currying favor. But they've pissed off a fair number of mainstream (and not just moderate) Rs in the process.

NY Times had a vaguely enlightening article on the point a couple of days ago.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally posted by Diane_Keaton
What part of "nobody is saying he shouldn't have moved on" didn't you hear?

A lot of people are saying he shouldn't move on, including many of the people who talk out of their ass about the sanctity of marriage. If you're not one of them, I think that's excellent -- good job! -- but they're still out there, even if very few of them haunt this board.

You sound silly talking about the sanctity of a marriage where the man has a new wife and kids. Stop this nonsense.

If Terry Schiavo said to Michael Schiavo, "honey, if I'm ever a vegetable, I want you to find someone else instead of falling into a twisted relationship with my parents," respecting the sanctity of their marriage means respecting his decision. When these people talk about the sanctity of marriage, what they really mean is, the sanctity of what we say a marriage is like.

Therefore, I am also adding that your "pro-Schiavo is a right wing conspiracy" is Stoopid.

Who said anything about the right wing or a conspiracy? I just said that these people are not respecting Michael Schiavo's relationship with his wife -- his marriage -- and that what they really want is to tell the rest of us how to live our lives. It's not a conspiracy -- if you listen to the right radio stations, they're pretty happy to tell you all about it.

[Replaced_Texan]

Originally posted by Tyrone Slothrop
I don't know the details about Michael Schiavo's relationship and kids, but I guess the man should have just put his life on hold while conservatives trashed him and forced Terry Schiavo to persist in a vegetative state all these years, notwithstanding his view -- and the courts' -- of her wishes. Keeping her alive in a brain-dead condition is clearly more important than letting him live his life. Silly him for not understanding that his role in his was to let Tom DeLay's new pals fuck him up the ass for their own political purposes for all these years.

ETA: If I understand the facts right, she went into a coma in Feb. 1990. He was living with her parents until more than two years later, May 1992. (This alone leads me to question whether he has some brain damage.) He and the parents have a falling out in early 1993. One of the Freepers tells me that he moved in with this other woman two years later in 1995.

I don't know what any of y'all's marriages are like, but my wife and I have been pretty clear with each other that if one of us falls into a persistent vegetative state, the period of time during which the other is expected to cohabit with the in-laws and pine by the bedside instead of getting out there and living one's life is to be less than five years. But then, that's a question of the relationship between husband and wife, and we've pretty much established that conservatives are less interested in protecting the sanctity of that relationship than in telling the rest of us how that relationship and the rest of our lives are to be run.

The Ad Litem report says that her family encouraged him to seek other relationships in those initial years while he was still married to her.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally posted by Mmmm, Burger (C.J.)
And not even your federalist conservatives, or your main-stream conservatives. You're right about whom the R party is currently currying favor. But they've pissed off a fair number of mainstream (and not just moderate) Rs in the process.

NY Times had a vaguely enlightening article on the point a couple of days ago.

There comes a time when your "federalist" conservatives and your "mainstream" conservatives need to stop just being "pissed off" about what their elected officials are doing. It's getting tired. I bet the same people are "pissed off" -- or maybe just a little "concerned" -- that Congress sees no need to find a balance between spending and revenue. And yet it just goes on and on. You guys elected these folks -- at some point, you've got to admit that their actions -- and not an occasional letter to the editors of the WSK or the Weekly Standard -- define conservatism.

[Diane_Keaton]

Originally posted by Tyrone Slothrop
A lot of people are saying he shouldn't move on, including many of the people who talk out of their ass about the sanctity of marriage. If you're not one of them, I think that's excellent -- good job! -- but they're still out there, even if very few of them haunt this board.

Cite please. I have yet to hear anyone say "I cannot believe he started dating again; it's only been fifteen years since she's been vegetable, fer Chrissakes". Where DO you GET this stuff, Ty? It's his new wife and kids AND the fact that he is still the guardian of his brain dead wife that some people are uncomfortable with and I have heard and respected the views of those who have noted this arrangement as one of many good points in this case

.. if you listen to the right radio stations, they're pretty happy to tell you all about it.

If you are listening to radio stations that are broadcasting shock and horror over a man's dating outside a 15 year marriage with a veggie, then you're listening to the wrong ratio stations. Or, those aren't radios you are listening to, but the voices in your head again.

[Gattigap]

Originally posted by Tyrone Slothrop
There comes a time when your "federalist" conservatives and your "mainstream" conservatives need to stop just being "pissed off" about what their elected officials are doing. It's getting tired. I bet the same people are "pissed off" -- or maybe just a little "concerned" -- that Congress sees no need to find a balance between spending and revenue. And yet it just goes on and on. You guys elected these folks -- at some point, you've got to admit that their actions -- and not an occasional letter to the editors of the WSK or the Weekly Standard -- define conservatism.

Untrue, Ty.

Remember, the DeLays of the world merely provide useful PR for Democrats. They're not at risk of actually doing anything, like implementing policy defined by their party platform, that would define what conservatism is, or offend those inside the Big Tent.

[Secret_Agent_Man]

Originally posted by bilmore
I know that I am always more inclined to give a listen to someone who is respectful than to someone who calls people in my party stupid, evil ass-fuckers over and over and over and . . .

In fairness, Bilmore, I have never called Tom Delay stupid. I also doubt he's an ass-fucker. (With a rug like that, he could never get a date.)

S_A_M

[Replaced_Texan]

Originally posted by Diane_Keaton
Cite please. I have yet to hear anyone say "I cannot believe he started dating again; it's only been fifteen years since she's been vegetable, fer Chrissakes". Where DO you GET this stuff, Ty? It's his new wife and kids AND the fact that he is still the guardian of his brain dead wife that some people are uncomfortable with and I have heard and respected the views of those who have noted this arrangement as one of many good points in this case

Last I heard, in order to not be married anymore you have to either get divorced or one of the parties has to die. Neither has happened in this case, and in fact that Catholic religion of hers that they keep citing would prevent divorce. There are thousands of marriage arrangements out there and I know a lot of Catholics in holding pattern relationships waiting for a (non persistent vegetative state) spouse to die before tying the knot. There has been NO evidence that the marital bonds in this case have been broken, notwithstanding other relationships.

[Secret_Agent_Man]

Originally posted by Diane_Keaton
Cite please. I have yet to hear anyone say "I cannot believe he started dating again; it's only been fifteen years since she's been vegetable, fer Chrissakes". Where DO you GET this stuff, Ty? It's his new wife and kids AND the fact that he is still the guardian of his brain dead wife that some people are uncomfortable with and I have heard and respected the views of those who have noted this arrangement as one of many good points in this case

Diane --

You're in NYC aren't you? Not many cultural conservatives up there -- especially of the wing-nut variety. I think there are some themes to this debate that you've missed hearing.

Note, for example, that the pleading filed earlier this week by the Schindler family in the M.D. Fla stated Schiavo "abandoned his marriage" in 1995 -- with the subtext that this made him unfit to continue to be her guardian. The statement is true to some extent, but the language used and the way it was use surely expressed disapproval.

S_A_M

[Replaced_Texan]

Originally posted by Secret_Agent_Man
In fairness, Bilmore, I have never called Tom Delay stupid. I also doubt he's an ass-fucker. (With a rug like that, he could never get a date.)

S_A_M

I'm comfortable with motherfucking jackass.

[bilmore]

Originally posted by Replaced_Texan
I'm comfortable with motherfucking jackass.

He's your senator. You get a pass.

ETA - representative. leader. guru. whatever.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally posted by Diane_Keaton
It's his new wife and kids AND the fact that he is still the guardian of his brain dead wife that some people are uncomfortable with and I have heard and respected the views of those who have noted this arrangement as one of many good points in this case

What's the problem with him having this relationship and being the guardian of his brain-dead wife? It sounds to me that you have a particular idea of what his marriage vows entailed. Maybe this is what Terry Schiavo would have wanted. Who are you to say?

If you are listening to radio stations that are broadcasting shock and horror over a man's dating outside a 15 year marriage with a veggie, then you're listening to the wrong ratio stations. Or, those aren't radios you are listening to, but the voices in your head again.

I'm paying as little attention to this crap as I can, although my Dad just called me to see if Sen. Frist can be challenged for the improper practice of medicine or something.