A disgusting vat of filth that no self-respecting intelligent person would wade into.

[Spanky]

[Spanky]

[Replaced_Texan]

The charitable interpretation is the yahoo photo editors don't give their readers enough credit. (Emphasis mine.)

Former U.S. President Bill Clinton, second from right, stands amidst puppets controlled by tsunami affected children at a rebuilt school at Thazanguda in Cuddalore district, around 165 kilometers (103 miles) south of Chennai, India, Friday, Dec. 1, 2006. Hundreds of villagers lined the streets of a coastal hamlet in the southern Indian state of Tamil Nadu Friday as Clinton, the top U.N. envoy for the tsunami recovery effort, visited homes built to replace those washed away by the 2004 Indian Ocean tsunami. The tsunami destroyed nearly 130 homes in Thazanguda, leaving many of the fishing community's 2,600 residents homeless. (AP Photo/ M.Lakshman)

Sheesh.

[Greedy,Greedy,Greedy]

Originally posted by Secret_Agent_Man
Spanky --

I think TM is a paragon of moderation and rationality. He is also a model of civility at all times. I will not have you insulting my good friend and FB running buddy!!

So there.

S_A_M

P.S. Am I cool yet? Am I, Hank?

Here's how I read what happened. Spanky attempted to insert himself into an ongoing conversation and redefine it. He failed, and could not come to terms with the idea that it was not all about him. He is fighting it to this day.

The meta-discussion is, just how much of a self-centered asshole is Spanky, that he would inflict this on people yet again, after being told in no uncertain terms that no one has patience for it. My read is that he has a level of insufferability that rivals Hank's.

In other meta-news, Spanky, formerly voted the PB board poster most likely to get some on the board, has now been voted Male Poster Most Resembling PPNYC by the FB Betties. In a surprise development, the new PB Board Poster most wanted by the FB Betties is nononononono.

[SlaveNoMore]

Replaced_Texan

And all this time, I thought it was President Bush that you guys complain is surrounded by puppets.

[SlaveNoMore]

Greedy,Greedy,Greedy
Here's how I read what happened. Spanky attempted to insert himself into an ongoing conversation and redefine it. He failed, and could not come to terms with the idea that it was not all about him. He is fighting it to this day.

The meta-discussion is, just how much of a self-centered asshole is Spanky, that he would inflict this on people yet again, after being told in no uncertain terms that no one has patience for it. My read is that he has a level of insufferability that rivals Hank's.

In other meta-news, Spanky, formerly voted the PB board poster most likely to get some on the board, has now been voted Male Poster Most Resembling PPNYC by the FB Betties. In a surprise development, the new PB Board Poster most wanted by the FB Betties is nononononono.

FWIW, the girl he brought to my Christmas party was pretty hot.

[Shape Shifter]

Originally posted by SlaveNoMore
FWIW, the girl he brought to my Christmas party was pretty hot.

That's cool that she took the night off to go to your Christmas party.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally posted by Spanky
SAM, GGG, Cletus, Ty, Hank and Sarge (or whoever is present and wants to put in their two cents.

This is the first installment of the Spanky group (much improved version of the McClaughlin Group).

1) Tibet and East Turkestan, stay part of China forever? if not when do they peel off?

2) What is the future of the borders of central Asia? Focused on Afghanistan.

3) Does Arabia ever unite?

4) When Iran developes its nuclear arsenal does Israel hit them with coventional or nuclear warheads? How does Iran respond?

5) Does Belgium ever split? If it does do the Flemmish join the Netherlands and the Waloons France or do we just get two new countries?

6) Does Kosovo ever merge with Albania?

7) Once Iraqi Kurdistan declares its independence, does Turkey invade?

8) If I torture Slave enough will he throw another party reasonbly soon?

1) They're being colonized more and more by Han Chinese, so it'll be harder and harder for them to break away. And China seems to be getting stronger, not weaker.

2) I'm not sure who would be pushing to change those borders. None of those countries are expansionist.

3) No. Too many distinct interests.

4) Hmm.

5) No. EU makes this more and more pointless.

6) That's tough. Kosovar independence will happen only with NATO/UN protection from the Serbs, but NATO/UN doesn't want to upset things by sticking the two countries together.

7) Much more likely if we're not there.

8) Sounds like an SF party.

[sebastian_dangerfield]

Originally posted by taxwonk
By "economic equality" do you mean equality of opportunity or equality of outcome? The two are dramatically different. I would say that your "Berkeley-think" caricature would tilt toward equality of outcome, which I think is impossible to achieve and foolish to aim for. On the other hand, I think that it's perfectly reasonable that people should have equality of opportunity, in that schools ought to offer the same (high) quality of education and that people should be able to compete on the same level for jobs, based upon their ability and training.

I happen to believe that government is neither a good nor an evil institution. It can be either or both. The Army that protects and defends us is good; the Commander-in-Chief who rushed too rapidly into a situation that further reflection would have shown to be intractable is bad. To suggest that any governmental influence is wrong is just as silly as to suggest that we shoudl live in a centrally-planned economy.

I also think that is is an abomination that in the wealthiest nation on Earth, people are going to hungry in the streets while the Dept. of Agriculture subsidizes tobacco farmers. I think that everyone, even those who simply refuse to work, has a right to a sheltered place to sleep and two meals a day. Because is life is sacred, even the wasted lives are worth keeping alive in some human fashion.

Is your worldview as nuanced? Do you have room for both absolutes and relative standards? Can you see shades of gray?

1. I believe equality of opportunity is more and more confused with equality of outcome. When Krugmanites cry for more progressive taxation, what "opportunity" are they asking the govt to give to people? Sounds like someone's handing somebody the ends, rather than the means.

2. I didn't suggest govt is exclusively harmful. It polices; it defends; it regulates as needed. Where it becomes evil is when it becomes a fix-all. Democrats believe we should run to the govt to fix everything. Pass a law. File a lawsuit. Real conservatives and libertarians (read: not these pork junkies presently calling themselves conservatives) believe in the notion that we get ahead by finding our own way, rather than suing each other, asking for handouts or pushing for a law to fix what ails us. The more people in this country are trained to believe Govt can be a Big Brother who'll fight your battles and make sure everything's fair, the more fucked we are in terms of ability to compete. Somebody's gotta get hurt for someone else to climb the ladder.

3. I loath subsidies. I can't argue with your stance on tobacco. Those farmers should have diversified. They didn't; they should lose their farms. Next.

4. Everybody has health care. When was the last time you were in the E/R and saw somebody turned away? I'm all for giving everybody preventative health care... But I'm not paying for it. My own family's health care is high enough. If I bought into buying it for everyone, Id get the double taxation of years of paying my family's costs, plus higher taxes... And then you know what would happen? They'd tell us the Nationalized Care Department ran into huge cost overruns due to bureaucratic expenses, and that our taxes wouldn't be coming down. Thanks. I'll take one of the retainer plans coming out and work out my own deal with an insurer for the excess. Shit, that's practically what I do now anyway. Does anyone really believe a nationalized system would be better? God, if the private sector can fuck health care up this badly, just imagine what the fucking govt would do. Oh, but at least we'd be sure there was no favoritism in the contracting process, since 20% of admin expenses would be eaten up in vetting procedures to make sure bureaucrats kept everything "fair." Quite simply, any "savings" I'd get out of nationalized health care would be illusory... I'd rather just bite the bullet and pay the doc.

5. By the way, since we're on the issue of health care, why is it always our tax burden to pay for the care of people who can't afford children but nevertheless reproduce? I can't afford four kids. It'd be cruel for me to have 4 kids because they couldn't get the standard of living I think they should (barring some lucky economic circumstances occuring). So why the fuck should people having children they can afford get a free pass in society? And why the fuck isn't birth control free? Fuck the GOP and the Jesus Freaks on that issue. You can't afford kids, don't fucking have them. It's just that simple. Don't whine to me about your dire straits due to the tax policy when you've got 4 kids and a $40k income. You should be fucking ashamed of yourself.

Yeh, my worldview is nuanced. Nobody should be left to the wolves, but we have to have an honest discussion about exactly what "equality of opportunity" entails. Looks to me like a whole lot of people think opportunity's best doled out in liquid form. Hopefully, I'm wrong, and my view is just another jaded observation from this cesspool of a state in which I live.

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy
In other meta-news, Spanky, formerly voted the PB board poster most likely to get some on the board, has now been voted Male Poster Most Resembling PPNYC by the FB Betties. In a surprise development, the new PB Board Poster most wanted by the FB Betties is nononononono.

Do you want me to arrange a vote of FB women to see who they would rather leave the FB, you or Spank? I would be willing to bet a month's board support on that outcome.

[Spanky]

Originally posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy
Here's how I read what happened. Spanky attempted to insert himself into an ongoing conversation and redefine it. He failed, and could not come to terms with the idea that it was not all about him. He is fighting it to this day.

The meta-discussion is, just how much of a self-centered asshole is Spanky, that he would inflict this on people yet again, after being told in no uncertain terms that no one has patience for it. My read is that he has a level of insufferability that rivals Hank's.

In other meta-news, Spanky, formerly voted the PB board poster most likely to get some on the board, has now been voted Male Poster Most Resembling PPNYC by the FB Betties. In a surprise development, the new PB Board Poster most wanted by the FB Betties is nononononono.

1) He quoted me and responded to my post. But I guess facts are not something you are interested in.

2) Am I forcing people to read my posts? There is an ignore button. I have suggested people use it (like I did with PPNYC) and yet it seems no one is using it. Puzzling.

2) If the FB betties are no longer thinking of me in "that way" every single post was worth it. The thought of a physical encounter with an "FB Bettie" is enought to wake me up screaming at night.

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally posted by Spanky
1) He quoted me and responded to my post. But I guess facts are not something you are interested in.

you're new here, so you may not know, but GGG was identified as the single dumbest poster on the board. he can't string together a coherent argument to save his life. mix in the simplistic lies about his "practice" and he's a guy you make fun of your first few years here, then feel sorry for after that. What's most ironic is he keeps posting while arguing that Bush et al are "blindly hopeful" that things will improve if only they keep doing the same things.

[Spanky]

Originally posted by Tyrone Slothrop
1) They're being colonized more and more by Han Chinese, so it'll be harder and harder for them to break away. And China seems to be getting stronger, not weaker.

China may becoming stronger, but strength ain't everything. The more Democratic she becomes the harder it will be for them to hold on (at least in my opinion). However, you are dead on about the Han Chinese. Every day their numbers grow. Manchuria and Inner Mongolia have been so flooded with Han (I think inner mongolia is 90%) that the idea of independce or reunnification with mongolia has become a joke.

Originally posted by Tyrone Slothrop 2) I'm not sure who would be pushing to change those borders. None of those countries are expansionist.

Couldn't Afghanistan, Pakistan or Iran fall apart? Persia is only fifty percent persian. The north west corner is all azerbaijni, the lower north west section is all Kurdish, and you have Baluchis in the southeastern corner. In Pakistan none of the other regions are too happy with Punjabi dominance.

Originally posted by Tyrone Slothrop 3) No. Too many distinct interests.

If all these countries became truly democratic, I think at least a few would merge like the two Yemens did.

Originally posted by Tyrone Slothrop
4) Hmm.

I go back and forth on this. I think Isreal would be really, really, really, reluctant to be only the second country in history to use nukes in hostility, but then again, I don't think they could do the job without them and they say they won't allow a nucler Iran to exist.

Originally posted by Tyrone Slothrop 5) No. EU makes this more and more pointless.

I actually think the EU makes this easier. They can split off but not really face dire economic consquences. I think both Scotland and England will split and so will Belgium. Belgium will go because the Walloons really don't like the way the flemmish are being so nice to the muslims. The muslim terrorist thing is pushing the issue.

Originally posted by Tyrone Slothrop 6) That's tough. Kosovar independence will happen only with NATO/UN protection from the Serbs, but NATO/UN doesn't want to upset things by sticking the two countries together.

Yes, I agree. But eventually Kosovar independence will become a give and then Nato will exit, and I don't think Serbia will do anything even after NATO exits because of their desire to join the EU. And then the albanian union will occur and Serbia will show restraint for the same reason.

Originally posted by Tyrone Slothrop 7) Much more likely if we're not there.

Very true. However, once we are gone, that is the big question. I think the only thing that will hold Turkey back will be US anger. After we spent so much money and manpower helping Kurdistan get its independence I don't think a turkish invasion will go over very well here. The other issue is what will Turkey do with Kurdistan once they invade? I can't imagine them occupying it. They say they won't let an independent Kurdistan exist on its southern border, but once it does exist what can they really do?

Originally posted by Tyrone Slothrop 8) Sounds like an SF party.

In my opinion most SF partys suck, but this one was really good.

[Spanky]

Originally posted by sebastian_dangerfield
1. I believe equality of opportunity is more and more confused with equality of outcome. When Krugmanites cry for more progressive taxation, what "opportunity" are they asking the govt to give to people? Sounds like someone's handing somebody the ends, rather than the means.

Yes but taxing the rich more means you are taxing the poor less which means you are making it easier for them to move up the latter; invest some money, buy a house etc. It is people moving up the lower rungs of the ladder, and creating their own small businesses, that is the engine that really pushes this economy.

Originally posted by sebastian_dangerfield
3. I loath subsidies.

Absolutely. They suck.

[Shape Shifter]

Originally posted by Spanky
Absolutely. They suck.

Then why do we have primaries in freaking Iowa? It's a cornspiracy, I tell you!