All Hank, all the time.

[Secret_Agent_Man]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o762HKxYMeA

[catchy tune and work safe}

Some other folks might enjoy the comments posted below the video clip itself. I liked both.

S_A_M

[Secret_Agent_Man]

Originally posted by Tyrone Slothrop
I think it's pretty well established that immigration confers very substantial benefits to society at large, but that almost all of these benefits are enjoyed by the immigrants themselves, and that the pressure on wages hurts those who are otherwise least well off. (Krugman wrote this a few weeks ago, and I have not seen his facts challenged.)

There are also substantial benefits to those comsumers who (a) like low prices for goods and services, but (b) have the education and training not to be competing for those low-wage jobs.

S_A_M

[SlaveNoMore]

Not Bob
We don't hear about the Irish

Stop. The "illegal" Irish - all 2000 of them - are single, males that work non-union construction for 4 years, send their money all back home, then leave.

... or Eastern Europeans living here illegally

You really want to deport 2/3s of the girls at Scores and the Crazy Horse?

[SlaveNoMore]

Mmmm, Burger (C.J.)
As for Krugman's argument, I'm not sure it's right. He assumes that immigrants are competing for the same low-end jobs that americans are. From what I've seen, most of the jobs taken by illegal immigrants are ones that would not be filled by americans, which is precisely why there's demand for illegals to fill them. This could be because the job is nasty, or because it wouldnt' be a job at minimum wage, or some other reason. But I don't think that illegal immigrants are exactly displacing american labor at mcdonalds.

McDonalds pays $8 to $10 an hour. Americans take those jobs.

The argument is that where an unskilled American would possibly take $8-10 to clean grease traps, an illegal Mexican will take $3, thus depressing wages.

[Greedy,Greedy,Greedy]

Originally posted by SlaveNoMore
McDonalds pays $8 to $10 an hour. Americans take those jobs.

The argument is that where an unskilled American would possibly take $8-10 to clean grease traps, an illegal Mexican will take $3, thus depressing wages.

Damn Americans always looking to undermine the free market. If someone's willing to do it for $3, I say let them do it.

Luckily, these wetbacks have a better understanding of American values.

[Mmmm, Burger (C.J.)]

Originally posted by SlaveNoMore
McDonalds pays $8 to $10 an hour. Americans take those jobs.

The argument is that where an unskilled American would possibly take $8-10 to clean grease traps, an illegal Mexican will take $3, thus depressing wages.

That assumes anyone with grease traps would pay 8-10 for someone to clean them.

although I concede the wage might end up somewhere in between, with less grease trap cleaning.

[Spanky]

Originally posted by Tyrone Slothrop
but that almost all of these benefits are enjoyed by the immigrants themselves,

My guess is that businesses owned by immigrants provide more jobs than there are immigrants. Small business provide for sixty to seventy percent of the jobs in this country and almost every small bodega, dry cleaner etc in the large cities on the coasts is owned and operated by immigrants.

A large portion of the growth in the Silcon Valley is fueled by immigrants.

We all benefit immensley from the economic growth provided by immigrants in this country and to suggest otherwise is pure stupidity.

[Not Bob]

Originally posted by SlaveNoMore
Stop. The "illegal" Irish - all 2000 of them - are single, males that work non-union construction for 4 years, send their money all back home, then leave.

I got no beef with them Micks. I'm just sayin', we don't hear anyone talk about talk about the illegals who look like the dude on the Lucky Charms box.

Originally posted by SlaveNoMore
You really want to deport 2/3s of the girls at Scores and the Crazy Horse?

So long as it doesn't affect Natalie. She really understands me. And she's very appreciative of the fact that, thanks to me, her niece in Minsk will be able to have that surgery.

[SlaveNoMore]

Not Bob
I got no beef with them Micks. I'm just sayin', we don't hear anyone talk about talk about the illegals who look like the dude on the Lucky Charms box.

Weed bitches about them all the time.

Except it's in Gaelic, and no one has a friggin clue what he's talking about - even them.

[Hank Chinaski]

you know for years I k-raced to get the chance to name one, and i never got close. then I was just posting with no idea of the post count and I hit it, w/o trying! You wanna know how to win? Trust the force.

[sebastian_dangerfield]

Originally posted by sgtclub
I'm only separating them due to Ty's "culturual" comment. I think a large majority of Americans are comfortable with legal immigration, retardless of their home country. In other words, this is not a racism issue.

I think Krugman's point is that illegal immigration depresses low end wages, and that if we got rid of that as a labor source, wages in that bracket would have to rise, which could be good for low end workers (forget about any inflation arguments).

1. Interesting Freudian slip when describing "the majority of Americans." I couldn't agree with your subconscious any more.

2. Krugman is an idiot. Getting rid of those workers would only force the jobs they do overseas. Those low end jobs that can't be outsourced will continue to be done by legal immigrants who already do them.

Protectionism doesn't work. Market forces work around it every time.

ETA: Isn't it a little offensive to argue for keeping hard working people out of our country? Aren't these Mexican people the same as the folks who came in through Ellis Island? Give them a chance. We need some ambitious people here. get them working and get them paying taxes and contributing. Throw the lazy ones back over the border.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally posted by Mmmm, Burger (C.J.)
As for Krugman's argument, I'm not sure it's right. He assumes that immigrants are competing for the same low-end jobs that americans are. From what I've seen, most of the jobs taken by illegal immigrants are ones that would not be filled by americans, which is precisely why there's demand for illegals to fill them. This could be because the job is nasty, or because it wouldnt' be a job at minimum wage, or some other reason. But I don't think that illegal immigrants are exactly displacing american labor at mcdonalds.

You might enjoy a class in basic economics. If illegal immigrants weren't around to take these jobs at the present wages offered, wages would go up to the point at which Americans laborers were willing to fill the jobs.

[Greedy,Greedy,Greedy]

Originally posted by sebastian_dangerfield
1. Interesting Freudian slip when describing "the majority of Americans." I couldn't agree with your subconscious any more.

2. Krugman is an idiot. Getting rid of those workers would only force the jobs they do overseas. Those low end jobs that can't be outsourced will continue to be done by legal immigrants who already do them.

Protectionism doesn't work. Market forces work around it every time.

ETA: Isn't it a little offensive to argue for keeping hard working people out of our country? Aren't these Mexican people the same as the folks who came in through Ellis Island? Give them a chance. We need some ambitious people here. get them working and get them paying taxes and contributing. Throw the lazy ones back over the border.

You're right - I'm going to outsource all the office cleaning to India right away.

And I'm sending the grease-traps to China.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally posted by Secret_Agent_Man
There are also substantial benefits to those comsumers who (a) like low prices for goods and services, but (b) have the education and training not to be competing for those low-wage jobs.

S_A_M

Krugman suggested that, empirically, the benefits are not all that substantial. Not non-existent, but not nearly as considerable as the benefits to immigrants themselves.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally posted by sebastian_dangerfield
Getting rid of those workers would only force the jobs they do overseas.

When you figure out a way to send landscaping work to India, you just let me know.

eta: stp