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Originally posted by Spanky
Why won't you just admit that racial prejudice and racist comments are always wrong. You tried to carve out an exception but now you realize that there should be no exceptions. Instead of trying to pretend that you never argued that that under certain circumstances racial prejudices and racist comments are OK, just admit that that assertion was wrong? Why the twisted and long rationalizations.
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Let's get something straight here. There are no long and twisted rationalizations. I am not saying anyone should have a free pass when making racially insensitive remarks. What I originally said was that you got all hot and bothered because you didn't want to hear anything about the historical legacy of racism in this country because individuals are responsible for their own actions, etc. What I said in response was the following: "You can choose to walk around pretending that that time is long over, because the only negative impact you feel is when, as pony said, a black person can feel comfortable making a racial joke at your expense because of the truth of historical racism and who it affects. And look at the fit you throw when someone even mentions the prospect."
The point I was making was that you are purposely ignoring the privileged position the historical application of racial prejudice in this country has put you in, yet you are all upset at the prospect that black people may feel more comfortable making a racial joke at your expense. You've continued to ignore the points I've made about historical prejudice and the current power dynamic in this country and have focused solely on whether it is okay or not for anyone to make racially insensitive remarks. This is because you are simple and cannot understand anything other than the point you are holding onto like a starved dog. You just don't get it and it can't be explained to you.
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Originally posted by Spanky
Prejudice is a natural inclination is a pathetic little point? I have lived in seven countries. My silly little experiences in Japan lasted three years. I may not have learned everything but at least it got me to realize that the US can look to other countries when it comes to learning more about things it is experiencing in its own culture.
As opposed to Brazil? The entire Caribbean. The Portuguese started enslaving Africans long before we did and continued to do so after we stopped. How was it applied differently in Brazil? Are you saying they did not have the "peculiar institution" in Brazil. That it didn't exist in Arabia? That it still doesn't exist in Arabia? Can we not look to other countries to see how they have addressed racial prejudice and what has worked and what hasn't? Africans have economically ( and in many other ways) fared much better in the United States than they have in Brazil. The U.S. and Brazil had very different experiences. You don't think it would be smart to look at what has worked and what hasn't in these two different countries and then continuing with what works and dropping what doesn't?
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Like I said and I don't know if you are incapable of listening or if you are incapable of understanding. Slavery was nothing new when it happened here. The idea that a whole race of people could be turned into property (in which people had legal ownership rights, supported by the government), enslaved for generations based simply on their skin color was a new one. And these last two paragraphs simply don't make much sense in the context of your argument. First, based on your experiences in Japan, you want to say that racial prejudice is our natural state of being and that we needn't look to our own history to understand it. Next, you want to look to everyone's history but our own to see what works and what doesn't. You are fatally inconsistent and not very bright.
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Originally posted by Spanky
So if you want to understand poverty in this country it doesn't help to understand the causes of poverty in other countries because our poverty is so completely different? Different countries have tried different ways to address racial prejudice and its effects - with very different levels of success. Can't we learn from these other countries when trying to figure out how to address the problem in our country?
Why should we repeat the mistakes other countries have made and why shouldn’t we copy their successes? Brazil has tried also sorts of policies to deal with racial and economic discrepancies in their country, so has India, Sri Lanka, Peru etc. etc. But I bet you can't name one policy that has been implemented in any other country and how it has fared. Yet you are going to lecture me on the subject, or tell me that if you understand that there has been four hundred years of abuse you know everything you need to know?
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Again, you are countering your own argument. Everything you needed to know was based on the fact that all cultures have some form of racism. Therefore there is no need to study our own history. Now it seems you want to study the history of racism in every
other culture. I never said we should exclude the lessons learned by other cultures.
You said we should ignore where our own history has placed us. You don't make any sense at all.
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Originally posted by Spanky
I am the colossal moron, and yet you deny that prejudice within the African American community does not have an oppressive effect. Tell that to the African American who didn't get into an all black college because they look "too African". Tell that to the Vietnamese kid who didn't get into Berkeley because the quota for Asians had been filled. Racial prejudice causes problem all over this country. Not just to African Americans, and it is not only employed by Caucasians. I know that is hard to accept, but believe it or not it is true.
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I am still waiting on your evidence of those black schools using oppressive light-skinned admissions preferences.
And you need to understand the difference between something having an oppressive effect on a couple of people and "oppression." When you've developed that understanding (as well as the understanding of "institutional"), we can continue this over pm, if you like.
Also, nowhere did I say other minorities aren't oppressed. Or that racial prejudice causes problems only to African Americans. I don't know how (or if) your brain operates.
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Originally posted by Spanky
Oh give me a break. You are totally backpedaling. Don't try and claim that this is about power and not about race. Michael Richards did not get into trouble because he was trashing poor white people. He got into trouble he was making fun of "black" people. Rich or poor, powerful or not powerful. This is not a power issue. It is totally OK for people in power to make fun of people who are out of power, and visa versa. It is when you get into race that you get into trouble. You are saying it is OK for black people to make racial comments. Don't try and deny it. The excuse you are using to defend racism is saying Black people are not in power, and White people are, so it is OK for Black people to make prejudicial and racist comments about whites because they are not in power. However you try and cloak it you trying to defend racism and racist comments.
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Holy
crap you're stupid!
I am simply not going to sit down and explain to you why power is so important in a discussion of race and prejudice. Again, feel free to pm me if you want to keep this going, but I don't have the time or energy to (i) make sense of your amorphous, flawed and stupid arguments or (ii) to explain basic principles to you.
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Originally posted by Spanky
You can call me whatever you want, but at least I am not a bigot and defend racial prejudice.
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Okay, you're stupid.
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Originally posted by Spanky
As opposed to saying the "peculiar institution" is unique to the United States? Now there was an insightful and educated comment.
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Maybe you should just buy the book.
http://www.amazon.com/Peculiar-Insti.../dp/0679723072
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Originally posted by Spanky
That is what tribal is. Tribalism is what allowed the Mongols to enslave non Mongols, Arabs to enslave Black Africans, Egyptians to enslave the Israelites, the Portuguese to enslave Africans. Tribalism, is my people are better and superior than your people.
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Only in Spankyland. Everywhere else tribalism means:
1. the customs and beliefs of tribal life and society.
2. strong loyalty to one's own tribe, party, or group.
Quote:
Originally posted by Spanky
I didn't overlook them all. You were the one who is and has justified racial prejudice. I am saying it is never OK and you are saying there are exceptions. If you will just admit that racial prejudice is always wrong, we have nothing to argue about. I will say that racial prejudice and racist comments are always wrong, whatever the circumstance - will you?
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See my first comment to this post.
If you have anything else you want to say, we can take to pm. Or you can post it. Whatever. But everyone was right about arguing with you. It's pointless.
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