Meet your new thread, same as the old thread.

[Not Bob]

Originally posted by sebastian_dangerfield
You mean to tell me the Admin somehow concealed the extent of the damages? Bullshit. Plame told everyone how many important networks were lost. The problem was there weren't any.

Can I point to an operative poisoned by a radioactive pellet? No.

Was there a CIA front company that is no longer secret? Yes. If you had provided information to the Agency through that company, would you be concerned? Even if no one is killed, sources are compromised and may no longer be able to provide us with information. This is just politics as usual to you? Clinton and Louis Freeh *hated* each other, and Freeh cut the legs out from Clinton whenever he could. Had Clinton outed some Klan informant, or NLF informant, to fuck Freeh (hey, because he thout that Louis was hurting America in some way), that would have been ok with you? Just cricket?

[sgtclub]

Originally posted by Not Bob
I don't defend what Sandy Berger did, and I don't think that prosecuting him was a partisan witch-hunt.

Your turn -- why is it ok to burn Plame to get Wilson? What about every one else who ever had any dealings with Brewster-Jennings (the company that, thanks to the decsion to smear Wilson, everyone now knows was a CIA front)?

Have I been asleep? Did new facts come out? I thought that the whole problem with Fitzgerald is that he knew who the leaker was early on in the investigation (hint: it wasn't Libby - it was Armitage), but still proceeded forward. That why they could only convict him of perjury.

Answer me this - if this leak was such a blow to national security and for the purposes of discrediting Wilson/Plame, then why wasn't Armitage (who was no friend to the Administration) put on trial?

[Secret_Agent_Man]

Originally posted by ltl/fb
Bush said Cheney's former aide was not getting off free.

"The reputation he gained through his years of public service and professional work in the legal community is forever damaged," Bush said. "His wife and young children have also suffered immensely. He will remain on probation. The significant fines imposed by the judge will remain in effect. The consequences of his felony conviction on his former life as a lawyer, public servant and private citizen will be long-lasting."


How is that not true of anyone who is convicted of a crime for the first time who is an adult? What asinine reasoning. If that's the case, pretty much every first-time offender should have their sentences commuted.

No. I'm hardly a huge Libby supporter, but the reasoning isn't that bad.

The issue as articulated is the proportionality of the sentence/punishment taking into account in the context of the individual's life and history.

The history of public service should count for a lot. (In this case, the court held it against him, I think.) When you are dealing with a first-time offender and a non-violent felon, that reasoning is defensible.

S_A_M

[Secret_Agent_Man]

Originally posted by Hank Chinaski
wait. wasn't the conviction for perjury? did the vast right wing conspiracy hide that he was really convicted for treason?

Poll: does this woman need implants?

(A) the Bush administration is replete with traitors.

(B) "Needs" is a strong word, requiring in-person inspection to evaluate. But, they wouldn't hurt.

S_A_M

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally posted by Secret_Agent_Man
(A) the Bush administration is replete with traitors.

(B) "Needs" is a strong word, requiring in-person inspection to evaluate. But, they wouldn't hurt.

S_A_M

here is what is absurd to me..... all of this crying about outing a supposed CIA agent and how devastating it is to our interests. And most of the people crying about it probably read the NYT article outing the international bank supeonas and thought it a piece of good journalism.

[sebastian_dangerfield]

Originally posted by Replaced_Texan
Whatever. There are thousands of slimebags sitting in jail right now that deserve a walk more than Scooter Libby does.

Here's my reply: Marc Rich. Were you as angry then?

[sebastian_dangerfield]

Originally posted by Not Bob
Can I point to an operative poisoned by a radioactive pellet? No.

Was there a CIA front company that is no longer secret? Yes. If you had provided information to the Agency through that company, would you be concerned? Even if no one is killed, sources are compromised and may no longer be able to provide us with information. This is just politics as usual to you? Clinton and Louis Freeh *hated* each other, and Freeh cut the legs out from Clinton whenever he could. Had Clinton outed some Klan informant, or NLF informant, to fuck Freeh (hey, because he thout that Louis was hurting America in some way), that would have been ok with you? Just cricket?

Those damages are speculative, counselor. I grant the defense's motion for a directed verdict.

[sebastian_dangerfield]

Originally posted by Replaced_Texan

I should have known that a man that gave George Tenet a Presidential Medal of Freedom for intelligence work leading up to Iraq would also give a walk to Libby. Accountability for fuck ups--especially for fuck ups having to do with this god awful war--isn't really the calling card of this administration.

Because LBJ, Kennedy and Nixon were so forthcoming about the debacle they kept us in. I see how juxtaposed against those fine examples Bush would look like the lowest degenerate.

There's nothing this guy is doing others didn't do. He's just ballsier and stupider about it. That a guy gets caught a lot more doesn't make him more malevolent. It means he's bad at it.

[Secret_Agent_Man]

Originally posted by Hank Chinaski
here is what is absurd to me..... all of this crying about outing a supposed CIA agent and how devastating it is to our interests. And most of the people crying about it probably read the NYT article outing the international bank supeonas and thought it a piece of good journalism.

I can see why you'd consider that juxtaposition absurd. I disapproved of both.

Whether you'd think that article was good journalism depends a lot on your view of the role and responsibiltities of the press.

S_A_M

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally posted by sebastian_dangerfield
Are you fucking high? Do you really think Plame's "outing" that compromised a motherfucking thing about our national security? Because if you do I want $300 of what you're smoking, and I'll fly out to get it.

Valerie Plame was NOBODY. Nothing. This whole thing was a political charade and fucking joke and even the Democrats involved snickered and admitted as much.

So, in your world, the Democrat-controlled CIA got upset that the White House outed one of its spies, and connived with the Democrat-controlled Department of Justice to have a Democrat-appointed prosecutor go after Scooter Libby, and he was successful only because he drew a judge appointed by a Democrat, whose ruling was then affirmed by an appellate court with two Democrat-appointed judges.

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally posted by Tyrone Slothrop
So, in your world, the Democrat-controlled CIA got upset that the White House outed one of its spies, and connived with the Democrat-controlled Department of Justice to have a Democrat-appointed prosecutor go after Scooter Libby, and he was successful only because he drew a judge appointed by a Democrat, whose ruling was then affirmed by an appellate court with two Democrat-appointed judges.

This is your world Ty. In this world a prosecution can be a political hatchet job, completely without merit, even with a guilty verdict from a jury.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally posted by sebastian_dangerfield
She was nobody....

She was the chief of operations for the CIA's Joint Task Force on Iraq (more), which may make her a nobody in your book, but not in mine.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally posted by SlaveNoMore
Oh, you mean the left-wing, made-up stuff. Right.

No, Libby's defense at his trial was that he was leaking stuff.

Whereas Libby was convicted of perjury, telling - under oath - different time frames of certain events.

Not just "different time frames," but good job -- this is the closest I've ever seen you come to acknowledging what he did.

[Greedy,Greedy,Greedy]

Originally posted by sebastian_dangerfield
Are you fucking high? Do you really think Plame's "outing" that compromised a motherfucking thing about our national security? Because if you do I want $300 of what you're smoking, and I'll fly out to get it.

Valerie Plame was NOBODY. Nothing. This whole thing was a political charade and fucking joke and even the Democrats involved snickered and admitted as much. Political theatre. Now we're seeing the second to last act.

I'll take my high level CIA operative with a blown cover to any two white house interns with a ... uh... well...

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally posted by SlaveNoMore
The Senate panel determined that Plame recommended Wilson for the gig that served as the initial platform for Wilson's lies, so I beg to differ.

No, a couple GOP senators put an inaccurate account of that episode into their portion of the report, and would not let the CIA correct it. Obviously, for the express purpose of giving conservative wingnuts (present company excluded) "facts" to draw on later.