Fashionistas you have arrived 3-25-03 - 10-3-03

[sebastian_dangerfield]

Originally posted by purse junkie
Yawn. Must we go over Body Image 101 here? We all have insecurities. I'm certainly not perfect, though I'm pretty happy with how I am. But it is disturbing that otherwise healthy people will accept the major health risks of anaesthesia and the strong likelihood of complications or future surgery on otherwise healthy organs in order to look a certain way. I'm not talking post-mastectomy reconstruction--I'm talking about "my B boobs are wholly inadequate." Men are catching up and becoming similarly obsessed, but it's still mostly women statistically. To say it's purely individual and not at least related to women still being valued more as t&a than whole human beings in the society as a whole is fucking ignorant. Saying so isn't a sign of "jealousy" as you put it--it's a legitimate critique of a social phenomenon. And for you to diminish it as such is a one of the oldest patronizing and sexist insults out there.

Fuck. It's like listening to Mike Brady complain that some of those "women's libbers" are really "out there."

And while we're at it--I'm sure Michael Jackson's obsessive skin-bleaching has nothing to do with the absurd perception that white people generally have life a little easier.

Translation: There is no legitimate gripe. Just a self-righteous moral judgment.

S(are you pro-life as well?)D

[Gattigap]

Originally posted by ThurgreedMarshall
Just to be sure, it's clear that that is a doctored photo, isn't it? Someone else's ass superimposed over and making fun of J-Lo's already oversized rumpus.

TM

Yup. The sight inspires apprehension nonetheless.

[dtb]

Originally posted by ThurgreedMarshall
Just to be sure, it's clear that that is a doctored photo, isn't it? Someone else's ass superimposed over and making fun of J-Lo's already oversized rumpus.

TM

OK, this is spooky. Can someone tell me whether there was some talk show on where J-Lo was denying that picture was actually her butt? It seemed really, really funny as I was watching it**, but thinking about it now, I think I actually might have only dreamed it.


**Surely, I am not the only one to have experienced the phenomenon of dreaming of something side-splittingly funny only to find that, upon awakening, it really wasn't funny at all, and in fact, made no sense.

[notcasesensitive]

Originally posted by paigowprincess
Boy Meets Boy. THis show I like. [Removed spoiler stuff.] This show is a total test of my gaydar. I also think Sean is straight bc no gay man would have that haircut and I am hoping Franklin is. So many cute guys on this show. Will be curious to see if there are any woman hating queens on this show- great that ANdra is there.

Queer Eye- This is the first episode I saw all the way through and it was great. Carson is absolutely fabulous as was that chocolate mousse. I am craving it- where can I get that recipe and where in DC can I get chocolate of that caliber? Probably nowhere. And how hot was that straight guy? [Removed spoiler stuff.]

I think I sufficiently de-spoilerized your post... Agreed on all counts. I think Franklin is straight, but it is interesting that they don't tell us. The only one who tilited my gaydar for sure was Wes, who was cute enough (in a gay sorta way) for me to wish he was here in Dallas so I could set one of my gay friends up with him...

Carson is hilarious. He always comes up with the best one-liners! Maybe a future in comedy? His own dressing styles sure doesn't hit the mark, tho he's done a good job on the duds for the str8 guys so far (other than making the cutie last night try on that pink tuxedo coat).

[W.W.L.D.]

Originally posted by purse junkie
Yawn.
And while we're at it--I'm sure Michael Jackson's obsessive skin-bleaching has nothing to do with the absurd perception that white people generally have life a little easier.

I was right with you up to this point.

[bilmore]

Originally posted by sebastian_dangerfield
Translation: There is no legitimate gripe. Just a self-righteous moral judgment.

You're being a little cavalier here. If her gripe about body-mod is based on a distaste for the Barbie model of value that women are (to a great extent) forced to serve in this world, it goes a bit beyond a self-righteous moral judgment. On your rationale, what belief ISN'T a self-righteous moral judgment?

[ThrashersFan]

Originally posted by purse junkie
To say [plastic surgery is] purely individual and not at least related to women still being valued more as t&a than whole human beings in the society as a whole is fucking ignorant. Saying so isn't a sign of "jealousy" as you put it--it's a legitimate critique of a social phenomenon. And for you to diminish it as such is a one of the oldest patronizing and sexist insults out there.

I am going to hate myself for getting involved but.....

Wasn't there a study done once that found that women actually do all that we do (how we dress, makeup, cosmetic surgery, etc) for other women and not for men? I don't mean in a lesbian way (NTTAWWT) but rather in a "I want to impress other women or have them envy me" way. It seems to me, that we carry some of the blame for being valued as T&A because we ourselves value T&A so much. For every time (and there have been very few) that I have heard a grown mature man (mature ones, not the 15 to 23 frat boy set) make a derogatory comment about a woman's body/clothing/face/whatever I have heard "grown and mature" women make a 1,000 such comments about other women. Why is that? Do we really blame this on society -- a society in which we are 51% of the population I might add -- or is it just us? I can't help but think that we women are worse to and more judgmental of one another than a man could be. Why? Does it all fall back on competition for men (who, as I pointed out, don't seem to care as much as we do) or are we just mean little shits by nature?

[greatwhitenorthchick]

Originally posted by sebastian_dangerfield
Translation: There is no legitimate gripe. Just a self-righteous moral judgment.

S(are you pro-life as well?)D

I think you are missing the point. I'm not sure that I can correctly make PJ's point, but if you are asking, "is there a gripe other than one that stems from the griper's self-image issues?" then I think the answer is yes.

I don't really care if people get plastic surgery or not. I am glad that the option is available to me if I want it and I have had cosmetic surgery already (although I don't think I'll ever get my boobs done).

I think, however, that a legitimate gripe about plastic surgery is that there are health risks that have been documented in studies associated with it and, to some, it is a sad commentary on society that we risk our health (and others, if you believe some of the studies that discuss breast milk and infants) for the sake of our outward appearance.

Now you can go ahead and blast those health studies to bits. And that's fine, but it does not mean that there is no gripe.

For example, I think women should be able to take an occasional drink during pregnancy. I think the health risks of an occasional drink are pretty much nil, even though people quote studies at me proving otherwise. I can go ahead and criticize those studies until the cows come home. That does not mean that opponents of drinking during pregnancy don't have a "legitimate gripe". It just means I disagree with them.

"Legitimate" to me means grounded in generally acceptable research. You can always criticize it, but it doesn't mean the gripe is founded on pure speculation or emotion, or someone's conception of morality.

[purse junkie]

Originally posted by sebastian_dangerfield
S(are you pro-life as well?)D

Of course not, you idiot. You think I want the government forcing me to breed? I don't say people don't have the right to do what they want--just that it's legit to question why. Life's a moral judgment SD--you, for example, had no problem judging those of us who find it problematic as jealous hags.

P(perfectly happy as a classic hourglass BTW, and hardly in need of implants)J

[ABBAKiss]

Originally posted by ThurgreedMarshall


Thurgreed(just for SD and Abba)Marshall

Okay, *that* is flab. That is not "strong glutes." She is a perfect example of a car date.

[purse junkie]

Originally posted by ThrashersFan
I am going to hate myself for getting involved but.....

[women being completely nasty to women] Why? Does it all fall back on competition for men (who, as I pointed out, don't seem to care as much as we do) or are we just mean little shits by nature?

Excellent post. I have no idea why. Maybe we do internalize what we claim is unfair, then spit it out at each other in the most vicious way. It's funny, but I hardly ever hear women criticize each other on career/school/other indicators of status--just like you say, on how they look. Guys--what's your primary fodder for guy-on-guy insults?

[Did you just call me Coltrane?]

Gigli Focus Groups Demand New Ending in Which Both Affleck and Lopez Die

Onion: http://www.theonion.com/onion3929/gi...us_groups.html

Excerpt: "According to the exit cards, other popular methods of achieving Lopez and Affleck's on-screen demise included car bombs, multiple stab wounds, acid baths, rabid wolf attacks, lightning strikes, and, in one case, a "hammer party."

[leagleaze]

Originally posted by sebastian_dangerfield
Translation: There is no legitimate gripe. Just a self-righteous moral judgment.

S(are you pro-life as well?)D

What exactly is wrong with being judgmental or having moral viewpoints? You might disagree with them, but that in turn would be your own judgment. Is it all of a sudden wrong to believe that certain things are wrong just because they are wrong? I.e. murder, adultery, what have you?

Personally, I just think risking your life for surgery is foolish just so you can have bigger breasts or get rid of your love handles. I think it is an inappropriate level of risk, and yes, that is a judgment. It isn't one that stems from jealousy or insecurity though. It is one that stems from knowing people can die or have serious complications from these things. If and when the day comes when there is no risk of death or complication, ask me again, I might have a different view. Does that make me judgmental? If so, that's ok with me.

[Shape Shifter]

Originally posted by purse junkie
Guys--what's your primary fodder for guy-on-guy insults?

Same as women - shoes.

[ThrashersFan]

Originally posted by Did you just call me Coltrane?
Gigli Focus Groups Demand New Ending in Which Both Affleck and Lopez Die

Onion: http://www.theonion.com/onion3929/gi...us_groups.html

Excerpt: "According to the exit cards, other popular methods of achieving Lopez and Affleck's on-screen demise included car bombs, multiple stab wounds, acid baths, rabid wolf attacks, lightning strikes, and, in one case, a "hammer party."

I read the opinion card that was printed in the story and I hope the movie producers didn't see it as constructive criticism. I might be wrong, but it seemed more like these people wanted to see Fucking Moron and J-Lo[ok who I am marrying this week] die -- slow and painful.

edited to add that I hope the person who penned the ways to die suggestions on that card (note that there are "more on other side") was not part of the Atlanta focus group --