It was the wrong thread

[Cletus Miller]

Originally posted by Penske_Account
The elasticity.

Of supply, or demand?

[Penske_Account]

Originally posted by Cletus Miller
Of supply, or demand?

I think supply, yes?

eta: we are off topic here. What about Ramos? and gRasso? bullshite yes?

[Cletus Miller]

Originally posted by Penske_Account
I think supply, yes?

eta: we are off topic here. What about Ramos? and gRasso? bullshite yes?

If so, I haven't seen the returns.

Aren't most state court judgments involving 9 figures bullshite? Altho Grasso did manipulate a NFP corp for substantial personal gain. A reduction in the fees charged by the NYSE (which were necessary to pay Grasso's draw) would have had a more positive impact on the markets (and economy) as a whole than concentrating that $ with one person. Is the litigation the right remedy? I'm not sure. But I think that Grasso did all investors a disservice with what he gave himself in pay. If he's worth so much comp, he should have been doing something actually productive.

Better?

[Penske_Account]

Originally posted by Cletus Miller
If so, I haven't seen the returns.

Aren't most state court judgments involving 9 figures bullshite? Altho Grasso did manipulate a NFP corp for substantial personal gain. A reduction in the fees charged by the NYSE (which were necessary to pay Grasso's draw) would have had a more positive impact on the markets (and economy) as a whole than concentrating that $ with one person. Is the litigation the right remedy? I'm not sure. But I think that Grasso did all investors a disservice with what he gave himself in pay. If he's worth so much comp, he should have been doing something actually productive.

Better?

I thought the board approved the pay package? Are they are not responsible?

[Cletus Miller]

Originally posted by Penske_Account
I thought the board approved the pay package? Are they are not responsible?

Yes, therefore my reluctance to say that the litigation against Grasso alone is the proper remedy. But doesn't the CEO of a NFP corp have a fiduciary duty as well? And how were the board members nominated? Did Grasso really not have influence in picking his pals for the board?

[Penske_Account]

Originally posted by Cletus Miller
Yes, therefore my reluctance to say that the litigation against Grasso alone is the proper remedy. But doesn't the CEO of a NFP corp have a fiduciary duty as well? And how were the board members nominated? Did Grasso really not have influence in picking his pals for the board?

Assuming that they were otherwise qualified, which they all were, I dont think that alleviates their director duties in the slightest. He was paid what they set as market, and in relation to CEOs of comparable orgs who ran entities with comparable performance, he was arguably underpaid over the course of his tenure.

[Cletus Miller]

Originally posted by Penske_Account
Assuming that they were otherwise qualified, which they all were, I dont think that alleviates their director duties in the slightest. He was paid what they set as market, and in relation to CEOs of comparable orgs who ran entities with comparable performance, he was arguably underpaid over the course of his tenure.

Name one (ONE!) NFP corp with "comparable performance" (reasonably defined) and CEO pay in excess of $100MM over the relevant period and I will agree with you.

[Penske_Account]

Originally posted by Cletus Miller
Name one (ONE!) NFP corp with "comparable performance" (reasonably defined) and CEO pay in excess of $100MM over the relevant period and I will agree with you.

I dont think other NFPs are necessarily comparable to this particular one. CErtainly your average one isn't nor would your average one need a person with the talents or expertise of a grasso.

[Cletus Miller]

Originally posted by Penske_Account
I dont think other NFPs are necessarily comparable to this particular one. CErtainly your average one isn't nor would your average one need a person with the talents or expertise of a grasso.

But I'm not asking for average. I'm asking for one. Do you admit that there is not one NFP which was comparable for performance or compensation purposes?

And as to your point that the directors' duties were not mitigated, are you suggesting that the proper defendent is the board as a whole?

[Penske_Account]

Originally posted by Cletus Miller
But I'm not asking for average. I'm asking for one. Do you admit that there is not one NFP which was comparable for performance or compensation purposes?

And as to your point that the directors' duties were not mitigated, are you suggesting that the proper defendent is the board as a whole?

I will think about the one question. I am not an encyclopedia of NFPs.

on the latter, yes. And Ramos should have recused himself, he tried to get on that board once and was still harbouring resentment.......

[Cletus Miller]

Originally posted by Penske_Account
I will think about the one question. I am not an encyclopedia of NFPs.

on the latter, yes. And Ramos should have recused himself, he tried to get on that board once and was still harbouring resentment.......

Not actually trying to put you on the spot. I recognize that it's an exceptional case, but $130MM+ smacks of opportunism and greed when running an NFP.

Fine then, I can buy into going after the board, too. And, not knowing those facts, I cannot disagree that Ramos should have recused himself. But, unless Grasso held the keys to the board, why would Ramos have animosity toward Grasso?

[Penske_Account]

Originally posted by Cletus Miller
Not actually trying to put you on the spot. I recognize that it's an exceptional case, but $130MM+ smacks of opportunism and greed when running an NFP.

Fine then, I can buy into going after the board, too. And, not knowing those facts, I cannot disagree that Ramos should have recused himself. But, unless Grasso held the keys to the board, why would Ramos have animosity toward Grasso?

He is bitter and petty. And the $130MM was conceptually in consideration for a career of service.

[Cletus Miller]

Originally posted by Penske_Account
He is bitter and petty. And the $130MM was conceptually in consideration for a career of service.

So Grasso wanted to play catch-up with those who he considered his peers. But he didn't actually generate profits for an enterprise, just used his orgainzation to skim off of real profitable companies. Sounds like racketeering.

[Penske_Account]

Originally posted by Cletus Miller
So Grasso wanted to play catch-up with those who he considered his peers. But he didn't actually generate profits for an enterprise, just used his orgainzation to skim off of real profitable companies. Sounds like racketeering.

How he could play catch, the board set the comp.

[Cletus Miller]

Originally posted by Penske_Account
How he could play catch, the board set the comp.

Sure, w/o any suggestion from Dick.