Politics: A new beginning - Page 11

bilmore · 10-07-2003, 01:57 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Tyrone_Slothrop
So you think we should invade Zimbabwe?

Why? Is my CEO going there, too?

(I think that it would be morally acceptable at this point to invade Zimbabwe. If practical reasons suggested such a move, morality would be consistent with it. Absent those practical reasons, we may not be moved to invade, simply because we can't do everything, but not being able to do everything should not mean that we can do nothing.)

Say_hello_for_me · 10-07-2003, 02:03 PM

A guy at work tells me about this site that asks for your actual beliefs in order to ascertain your compatibility with various religions. He thought it was interesting because he was raised Catholic and it says he'd be a good Orthodox Jew. I was raised Catholic and it says I'm pretty much 100% Regular Jew. The Jewish guy down the hall comes back as a conservative Quaker.

http://www.beliefnet.com/story/76/story_7665_1.html

20 questions, though I guess the trick is to focus on what you actually believe, not what you've been taught to believe.

Hello

Oh yeah, and I was shocked, shocked I say, to find that my 4th most compatible religion is, uhm, Islam. Please don't tell Ashcroft.

Tyrone Slothrop · 10-07-2003, 02:13 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by bilmore
Why? Is my CEO going there, too?

(I think that it would be morally acceptable at this point to invade Zimbabwe. If practical reasons suggested such a move, morality would be consistent with it. Absent those practical reasons, we may not be moved to invade, simply because we can't do everything, but not being able to do everything should not mean that we can do nothing.)

I hear what you're saying, but it strikes me as an odd view of the world that posits morality as a potential obstacle to action rather than an impetus. Maybe less odd than Freudian. But, whatever.

bilmore · 10-07-2003, 02:19 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Tyrone_Slothrop
I hear what you're saying, but it strikes me as an odd view of the world that posits morality as a potential obstacle to action rather than an impetus. Maybe less odd than Freudian. But, whatever.

Close - but it's immorality that acts as an obstacle to otherwise desired action. The fact that an action may be moral simply means that one does not rule out its choice on that basis. If something is immoral, it is then ruled out by that factor.

Bad_Rich_Chic · 10-07-2003, 02:20 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Secret_Agent_Man
Sorry for 5 posts in a row --

Is there anyone here who could honestly disagree that the answers to both those questions are not just "No." "But, Hell, No!"

If so, please identify the WMD found, and the evidence of 'close" connections to al Qaeda.

In all fairness, while I myself agree that the answer to both is "hell no," I do think a rational, fully informed person could hold the view that WMD have been found. There have been several reports by various US agencies/representatives stating that materials they believe to be WMDs/evidence have been found (in particular, I recall the two alleged mobile chemical weapons labs, contradictory evidence from a bombed "vaccine" plant, but there have been 3 or 4 other examples). These "discoveries" were widely questioned & criticized, and whimpered their way out of the spotlight without being strongly asserted or backed by the gov't, but most haven't actually been disproven. Not to mention that, a little over a month ago, there were rather a lot of rumours/leaks about that the US had in fact found conclusive evidence but was sitting on it to sandbag international detractors (which they obviously have not in fact done).

So I don't think it is correct to say that people who are aware of those findings and believe, overall, that they mean that WMD have in fact been discovered, necessarily have a "misperception." (In fact, I would wager that people who have been following the news enough to be aware of those discoveries and their current "left by the wayside but not retracted or disproved" status at all are probably significantly better informed that the usual news consumer.) If the question were phrased more like: "the US has conclusively demonstrated that Iraq had WMD," I would think the misperception lable was entirely appropriate. The use of the words "clear evidence" in the al Qaida question seems key to me.

But I have a larger beef with the poll: where is the option to get most of your news from the internet? Frankly, that's what I've been doing, and by comparison to the news services available online, ALL U.S. coverage just seems to me to be SHOCKINGLY bad by comparison. (Though, in fairness, I currently consider the economist to be an "online" news source, not print.)

Replaced_Texan · 10-07-2003, 02:23 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Say_hello_for_me
A guy at work tells me about this site that asks for your actual beliefs in order to ascertain your compatibility with various religions. He thought it was interesting because he was raised Catholic and it says he'd be a good Orthodox Jew. I was raised Catholic and it says I'm pretty much 100% Regular Jew. The Jewish guy down the hall comes back as a conservative Quaker.

http://www.beliefnet.com/story/76/story_7665_1.html

20 questions, though I guess the trick is to focus on what you actually believe, not what you've been taught to believe.

Hello

Oh yeah, and I was shocked, shocked I say, to find that my 4th most compatible religion is, uhm, Islam. Please don't tell Ashcroft.

Hmm. I'm perfectly alligned with the Neo-Pagan, with the Unitarians and Quakers running close behind. I'm only 18 percent compatible with my Roman Catholic upbringing. This should surprise no one. I am, though, a little disturbed by the 63% compatibility with Scientology.

Greedy,Greedy,Greedy · 10-07-2003, 02:24 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Say_hello_for_me
A guy at work tells me about this site that asks for your actual beliefs in order to ascertain your compatibility with various religions. He thought it was interesting because he was raised Catholic and it says he'd be a good Orthodox Jew. I was raised Catholic and it says I'm pretty much 100% Regular Jew. The Jewish guy down the hall comes back as a conservative Quaker.

http://www.beliefnet.com/story/76/story_7665_1.html

20 questions, though I guess the trick is to focus on what you actually believe, not what you've been taught to believe.

Hello

Oh yeah, and I was shocked, shocked I say, to find that my 4th most compatible religion is, uhm, Islam. Please don't tell Ashcroft.

I am apparently least compatible with being a Catholic, which is what I am. Apparently I ought to become a Quaker instead.

Tyrone Slothrop · 10-07-2003, 02:24 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by bilmore
Close - but it's immorality that acts as an obstacle to otherwise desired action. The fact that an action may be moral simply means that one does not rule out its choice on that basis. If something is immoral, it is then ruled out by that factor.

For a second, I was excited to see what you were linking to. Tease.

Bad_Rich_Chic · 10-07-2003, 02:29 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Say_hello_for_me
A guy at work tells me about this site that asks for your actual beliefs in order to ascertain your compatibility with various religions. He thought it was interesting because he was raised Catholic and it says he'd be a good Orthodox Jew. I was raised Catholic and it says I'm pretty much 100% Regular Jew. The Jewish guy down the hall comes back as a conservative Quaker.

http://www.beliefnet.com/story/76/story_7665_1.html

20 questions, though I guess the trick is to focus on what you actually believe, not what you've been taught to believe.

Hello

Oh yeah, and I was shocked, shocked I say, to find that my 4th most compatible religion is, uhm, Islam. Please don't tell Ashcroft.

I'm neo pagan. Not really surprising. Followed by "New Thought" (huh?), New Age (ick) and Unitarian Universalism (not surprising).

Followed by Scientology. Now I'm worried.

BR(edited to add: least compatible: Jehovas' Witnesses (9%), 7th Day Adventists (18%), RC (20%), Eastern Orthodox (20%), Mormon (29%), mainline conservative proddy (29%))C

Atticus Grinch · 10-07-2003, 02:29 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Say_hello_for_me
20 questions, though I guess the trick is to focus on what you actually believe, not what you've been taught to believe.

Ha, ha! You're more Muslim than I.

1. Reform Judaism (100%)
2. Sikhism (93%)
3. Liberal Quakers (92%)
4. Bahá'í Faith (89%)
5. Orthodox Judaism (84%)
6. Islam (82%)

The religion of my birth and upbringing was ranked 25. The religion I actually practice today was ranked 7. I think it would have ranked higher, but I have this recurring problem wherein I call "bullshit" on the Incarnation. I can't help myself.

bridge of love · 10-07-2003, 02:43 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Atticus Grinch
.......ranked 25. ........... ranked 7. I think it would have ranked higher, but...................

Jehovah's Witness was deadlast for me. i think it was because I didn't bother to say "believe strongly" very often. Taoism was disappointingly low for me.

rufus leeking · 10-07-2003, 03:03 PM

Moroccan teacher throw talkitive students out window
http://www.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/africa...eut/index.html

Atticus Grinch · 10-07-2003, 03:10 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by rufus leeking
Moroccan teacher throw talkitive students out window
http://www.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/africa...eut/index.html

As a product of Catholic schools, I'd say the problem is non-unique.

Connect_the_Dots · 10-07-2003, 03:40 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Atticus Grinch
As a product of Catholic schools, I'd say the problem is non-unique.

I call bullshit. I went to catholic school(s) as well, but Sister Constance never threw anyone out of the window for talking during the Apostle's Creed. She could weild her rosary like a pair of nunchaku, in a way that would make Bruce Lee cringe, but she never threw anyone out a window.

notcasesensitive · 10-07-2003, 04:04 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy
I am apparently least compatible with being a Catholic, which is what I am. Apparently I ought to become a Quaker instead.

Should I be frightened that I share your high and low compatibilities? More frightening to me is that Mormans made my top ten --

1. Liberal Quakers (100%)
2. Unitarian Universalism (98%)
3. Mainline to Liberal Christian Protestants (97%)
4. Secular Humanism (84%)
5. Bahá'í Faith (82%)
6. Neo-Pagan (77%)
7. Reform Judaism (75%)
8. New Age (71%)
9. Theravada Buddhism (67%)
10. Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints (Mormons) (65%)