Politics: Where we struggle to kneel in the muck.

[Gattigap]

Originally posted by Replaced_Texan
I am in the middle of reading this. Seems to be saying that things are sort of grim in Iraq right now. I don't see how it's possible to register people, much less hold elections at this point.

I heard a radio interview of a couple of election folks who have been advising the CPA over the past year or so. Their take seemed to be that you probably could have basic registrations from the old rationing systems (plus some factor to take into account the new people), and they made the point that elections often occur around the world in less than ideal conditions (with civil wars, insurgencies, etc).

The difference here is that entire regions and entire ethnic groups risk being shut out of the process entirely. If that happens, the new government will be probably devoid of Sunnis, and that creates significant internal legitimacy problems that could spark a full-out civil war.

The risk seems to be not that the elections won't happen (because once the date's set, no one feels like they can postpone it), but instead that a crappy or half-done election won't be sufficient in the eyes of Iraqis themselves, which leads to other problems.

[Gattigap]

Originally posted by Not Me
Some of them choose to reliquish their Senate seats so that their constituents are better served. But not this schmuck.

Interesting point. Were you similarly disgusted when Bush held on to his Governorship whilst campaigning in 2000?

[SlaveNoMore]

Gattigap
This is a nifty debating point, but I'm not really convinced by an argument that in order to be "meeting his responsibilities," he should be sitting in the Senate chamber instead of travelling the country and campaigning, like every other presidential candidate in the modern era does.

Of course. And campaigning in Ohio [read: futile exercise]



is so much more important than, say, voting for or against the appointment of the new CIA director....

or something as trivial as meeting with the current head of Iraq*




this isn't surprising actually. Given his Vietnam history , Kerry is more likely angling for a "secret" meeting in Paris with Al-Zarqawi

[Sidd Finch]

Originally posted by SlaveNoMore
this isn't surprising actually. Given his Vietnam history , Kerry is more likely angling for a "secret" meeting in Paris with Al-Zarqawi

Slave, you're too smart to say things this stupid. Believe it or not, people who disagree with you are not all pro-terrorist. Get your head out of your ass, and stop expressing mock horror that the Dem candidate for president is actually on the campaign trail.

[Shape Shifter]

Originally posted by Sidd Finch
Slave, you're too smart to say things this stupid. Believe it or not, people who disagree with you are not all pro-terrorist. Get your head out of your ass, and stop expressing mock horror that the Dem candidate for president is actually on the campaign trail.

In fairness, it was a 77 - 17 vote. Think of how the constituents of MA and NC would have been better served had Kerry and Edwards been there.

The real reason the right is indignant about this is that it gives them one less Senate vote to use against them.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally posted by sebastian_dangerfield
Are you fucking nuts? Are you really arguing AGAINST a politician shutting down unnecessary bills of dubious worth in a state climbing out of a fiscal hole which also happens to have a history of enacting piles and piles of the most worthless, inane and costly legislation/regulation in the country? Maybe Arnold's decision to blow out new regs/laws isn't well thought out on the micro level, but one certainly cannot argue with sending a message to California's legislature to stop writing a bill to cover every goddamn thing some flake decides should be subject to a law.

Now, shred me with some stats and explain how I'm painting with a broad brush, JFK.

Arnold presided over a Gray Davis $100+ billion budget this year, but the soundbites from him are so good that the Republicans in this state couldn't care less. In general, Republicans talk a good game on spending, but it's only talk. You've got people here who are willing to kvetch that Bush and the GOP Congress are spending money like a drunken sailor, but they're not willing to vote accordingly, even though Kerry wouldn't exactly be able to sail pork through Congress.

[Not Me]

Originally posted by Gattigap
Interesting point. Were you similarly disgusted when Bush held on to his Governorship whilst campaigning in 2000?

Did he neglect his duties as Governor in order to campaign? For instance, was he so busy campaigning he couldn't take time to sign bills passed by the TX legislature?

Kerry is neglecting his duties as a Senator. If he can't both campaign and fulfill his responsibilities as a senator, then the right thing to do for the people he serves would be to give up the seat. But Kerry never does the right thing.

I know that all senators miss at least some votes, but he is ridiculous.

[Gattigap]

Originally posted by Not Me
Did he neglect his duties as Governor in order to campaign? For instance, was he so busy campaigning he couldn't take time to sign bills passed by the TX legislature?

Well, throwing the switch only takes a few moments, so I doubt that the Guv was terribly inconvenienced by official duties.

Your concern for the citizens of MA and NC is touching, though.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally posted by Sidd Finch
Slave, you're too smart to say things this stupid. Believe it or not, people who disagree with you are not all pro-terrorist. Get your head out of your ass, and stop expressing mock horror that the Dem candidate for president is actually on the campaign trail.

He's also too smart to think that meeting with Allawi is not something being done for the campaign trail. Bush has Negroponte to keep Allawi on a short leash and tell him what to do (like, as George Will reported this week,* to manage his media appearances in this country).

* "After "This Week" arranged with Allawi's office for Sunday's interview, the State Department called ABC to say that the office of U.S. Ambassador John Negroponte in Baghdad had decided that the interview would not happen until this coming Sunday, after Allawi's U.S. visit. This attempt by the U.S. Embassy to exercise sovereignty over the prime minister raised interesting questions about just what was actually transferred on June 28 when sovereignty was supposedly given to the Iraqi government. The White House recognized the inconvenience of such questions. The interview occurred."

[Not Me]

Originally posted by Gattigap
Well, throwing the switch only takes a few moments, so I doubt that the Guv was terribly inconvenienced by official duties.

Your concern for the citizens of MA and NC is touching, though.

Thanks for your non-response. This is just another example of a man who is about nothing but himself and places himself above everything else.

[SlaveNoMore]

Sidd Finch
Slave, you're too smart to say things this stupid. Believe it or not, people who disagree with you are not all pro-terrorist. Get your head out of your ass, and stop expressing mock horror that the Dem candidate for president is actually on the campaign trail.

1) Point: Kerry met with enemy leaders while this country was engaged in a War and soldiers were being held hostage. In some corners, this is treason.

I'm sure your counterpoint will be nothing more than "So, what?"

2) I'm not expressing mock horror. I'm expressing shock that Kerry's handlers are so fucking incompetant that they are letting his campaign run itself into the ground by ignoring all of these fantastic opportunities to finally do something "presidential"

[Not Bob]

Originally posted by SlaveNoMore
1) Point: Kerry met with enemy leaders while this country was engaged in a War and soldiers were being held hostage. In some corners, this is treason.

All sorts of non-US governmental people met in Paris with VC/NV officials. Henry Kissenger, for example (and I mean before Nixon won the election).

And, speaking of unofficial diplomacy with foreign leaders, I'm sure that you have the same problem with private citizen Richard Nixon reaching out to South Vietnamese President Theiu (via his old friends Madame Chiang and Anna Chennault) to scuttle the possible Vietnam peace deal worked out in October 1968. Some might call that treason, too.

[Say_hello_for_me]

Originally posted by Not Bob
All sorts of non-US governmental people met in Paris with VC/NV officials. Henry Kissenger, for example (and I mean before Nixon won the election).

And, speaking of unofficial diplomacy with foreign leaders, I'm sure that you have the same problem with private citizen Richard Nixon reaching out to South Vietnamese President Theiu (via his old friends Madame Chiang and Anna Chennault) to scuttle the possible Vietnam peace deal worked out in October 1968. Some might call that treason, too.

Like you are going to get someone to defend Nixon. As if.

[bilmore]

Here's part of Terry McAuliffe's speech on 9/8, nine hours BEFORE the Dan Rather Fiction Hour:

"George W. Bush's cover story on his National Guard service is rapidly unraveling. ... George W. Bush needs to answer why he regularly misled the American people about his time in the Guard and who applied political pressure on his behalf to have his performance reviews 'sugarcoated.'" (Terence Hunt, "Questions Raised About Bush Guard Service," The Associated Press, 9/9/04)

Here's the phrase in the forged memo that CBS released to all, for the first time, during the Rather Fiction Hour:

"Harris gave me a message today from Grp regarding Bush's OETR and Staudt is pushing to sugar coat it."

Can you say "coordination"?

[bilmore]

Originally posted by SlaveNoMore
I'm expressing shock that Kerry's handlers are so fucking incompetant that they are letting his campaign run itself into the ground . . .

After Iowa, they thought that was their mandate.