Still Hating America.

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally posted by Tyrone Slothrop
You are so full of shit. Did I annoy you by comparing you to Not Me?

You and Spanky both seem to have a penchant for disregarding news stories when they're inconvenient for your team.

that's a news story in your world? something written in 2005 talking about something that happened in 1987? that is a made up quote based upon the guy's recollection. Isiah never called Worm "Rodman", as one example that it is not a quote. He would have said "Dennis" as noted in my more factually based recollection.

[Spanky]

Originally posted by Tyrone Slothrop
First you complain that I linked to a blog post, and then you regurgitate the entire post here (presumably thinking that there were a whole host of board regulars who, like yourself, become addled by working those link thingies that keep cropping up in hypertext documents). Were you dropped on your head a lot as an infant?

I posted the whole Blog, because I knew most of the experienced and savvy posters would have ignored the link. I wanted to make sure they didn't miss what a load of B.S. the actual post was; that it was infinitely more pathetic than they probably even expected.

Originally posted by Tyrone Slothrop
The poster, Mark Kleiman, is a professor of public policy at UCLA. Which is to say that his credentials to say shit about educational policy are substantially greater than yours.

You blabber on about his credentials, however, mentioning that someone is a professor of public policy or a professor of sociology, actually diminishes their credibility to most thoughtful people. And as usual, you don't go to the actual substance of what he says, you just rely on his credentials. Maybe you might consider looking at the validity of their arguments, instead of their credentials, when judging whether or not their arguments have value. However, being that you are the king of fallacies, I guess that is why you like Blogs so much.

Originally posted by Tyrone Slothrop Slagging what he says simply because he's published it on a blog instead of printing it on paper is just dumb. (Congratulations: You walked into that one.) Compared to your ouevre here on this particular subject, his post compares favorably.

Slagging? Is that a Bloggers term? I criticized it because it was bad, not because it was on a blog. In fact, I pointed out that most of the stuff in the link was even worse than most stuff usually posted to blogs. I actually complimented blogs in that they usual contain stuff that is more credible than what you presented us with.

I notice you are still are not defending the Blog post. The whole Blog is there, just highlight for me the sections you found so compelling that you felt the entire board should review it? It all seemed like a bunch of unsubstantiated B.S. to me, but clearly you thought some part of it has some value because you wanted to share it with the whole board. What part would that be?

[SlaveNoMore]

Tyrone Slothrop
Slave's post had nothing to do with the burden of proof -- it was a facile attempt at rebuttal. Actually, Slave was more interested in establishing that Gore is a hypocrite, which is fine as far as it goes, which is nowhere if what you care about is whether the climate is changing.

It is "somewhere", if it bothers you that boorish, pompous asses prefer to preach down from their bully pulpit and condemn other's behavior - of which they themselves are some of the worst offenders - then doing anything about it.

"Do as I say and not as I do"

Alternately, "Ask not what I can do for my country - tell what your country will tell you to do"

You said before that you were going to wait to make up your mind until sea levels were actually rising. So I pointed you to sources saying that sea levels have been rising. I can lead you to water, but I can't make you drink, even if it keeps rising.

Sea levels rise. Sea levels fall.

So don't friggin' build $10MM on sand. 'Nuff said.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally posted by Hank Chinaski
that's a news story in your world? something written in 2005 talking about something that happened in 1987? that is a made up quote based upon the guy's recollection. Isiah never called Worm "Rodman", as one example that it is not a quote. He would have said "Dennis" as noted in my more factually based recollection.

Spend a little time on Westlaw or Nexis and you can find plenty of stories from back in the day. For example, the May 31, 1987 Philadelphia Inquirer ran this story:

• BIRD'S 37 LIFTS CELTS TO EASTERN CONFERENCE TITLE
  
  Mike Bruton, Inquirer Staff Writer
  
  BOSTON Something took hold of the Boston Celtics in the last few minutes of their heated Game 7 confrontation with the Detroit Pistons.
  
  The Pistons, a strong-willed bunch who dared not to be in awe of the Celtics and Boston's bellowing crowd, refused to stop gnawing at the defending NBA champions.
  
  Yet in the final minutes, against a relentless team on an exhausting day, the Celtics ascended to a level on which only they could walk and prevailed, 117-114, to win the Eastern Conference championship series.
  
  "There's something inside us that makes us not want to lose," said Kevin McHale.
  
  "The way this series was going we didn't want to lose to them," McHale said. "It was very physical and (Dennis) Rodman was running around like a high school kid waving his arms. We made a collective decision not to lose and when we do that we rarely lose."
  
  Nothing was spared in the series, least of all anyone's feelings. Blood was shed, blows were struck.
  
  And now the Celtics will advance to the NBA finals against the Los Angeles Lakers, a best-of-seven series that will begin Tuesday at Inglewood, Calif.
  
  "I sort of wish this were the end of it," said Larry Bird, whose 37-point performance defied description, "but it's just another step to the finals."
  
  The parquet floor of the Boston Garden yesterday afternoon was no place for the faint-hearted.
  
  By the time the fourth quarter arrived, Adrian Dantley was en route to Massachusetts General Hospital, where he was to remain overnight for treatment of a concussion suffered when he bumped heads with teammate Vinnie Johnson diving for a loose ball near the end of the third quarter.
  
  Isiah Thomas, who had a mouse on the side of his left eye, looked like a prizefighter after a tough bout. Both teams, mindful of the fight between Bird and Bill Laimbeer in Game 3 and Robert Parish's attack on the Detroit center in Game 5, were more than eager to see their opponent vanquished.
  
  And when Boston took its final lead, Danny Ainge walked up to Rodman and did a running dance with his arm waving in the air. Moments later, Dennis Johnson repeated the gesture.
  
  "I've been waiting to do that Dennis Rodman dance since the beginning of the series," said Ainge, whose three-pointer with 3 minutes and 6 seconds left gave Boston a lead it never relinquished. "That wasn't intended for Detroit or anyone else on that team, only Dennis Rodman."
  
  Rodman was the victim of a fourth-quarter surge by Bird that carried the Celtics to the victory.
  
  Bird, who also had 9 rebounds and 9 assists, popped out for two 20-footers, made a running lefthanded shot off the glass and threw a textbook pass to Dennis Johnson on the baseline for an open jumper in the last 6 minutes.
  
  That's when Dantley's absence began to stand out. Having a rookie guarding Bird in that situation is like fighting a bear with a butter knife.
  
  Rodman fumed at an assertion that Bird took advantage of him.
  
  "I think he's overrated," Rodman said of Bird. " He's a great passer and real smart but other than that. . . . You've got Magic (Johnson) and Michael Jordan and Isiah."
  
  Thomas added: "Larry Bird is a very, very good basketball player, but I have to agree with Rodman. If he were black, he'd be just another good guy."
  
  The responses were an example of the Pistons' bitterness in the wake of this hard-fought series.
  
  The no-call by referee Jess Kersey when Parish punched Laimbeer in Game 5, which the Pistons lost on a last-ditch steal by Bird, was still fresh on their minds.
  
  "I don't want to get fined," Thomas said, making a veiled accusation that the officials give the Celtics preferential treatment, "but everyone in America knows what goes on in this building. We didn't win the series, but I believe we're the best basketball team."
  
  McHale answered, "That's his opinion."
  
  The momentum of the game tilted to the Celtics during an incredible sequence in which Boston kept getting offensive rebounds and got six shots at the basket.
  
  Joe Dumars, who was spectacular in leading Detroit with 35 points, hit a short baseline jumper to tie the game, 99-99, with 4:18 left.
  
  Then in the next minute and 12 seconds, Ainge missed, Bird missed twice, McHale missed and Parish had a shot blocked before Ainge hit a three-pointer to put the Celtics up, 102-99. Boston never trailed again.
  
  "We fought for those rebounds (before Ainge's basket)," McHale said. "We wanted them. Danny finally hit the three-pointer and that put us over the hump."
  
  And the Boston Celtics, once again, will vie for the NBA title.

I've bolded the quote by Thomas, but I included the whole story, since I was pretty sure that you'd want to be reminded of the context.

[Adder]

Originally posted by Spanky
mentioning that someone is a professor of public policy or a professor of sociology, actually diminishes their credibility to most thoughtful people.

This level of anti-intellectualism actually disqualifies you from claiming to be thoughtful.

To be clear, I'm not saying you have to believe what someone says because of their education and research experience. But if you actively discount what someone says because they have an established academic track record, you are the antithesis of a thoughtful person. Which surprised me from you.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally posted by Spanky
It all seemed like a bunch of unsubstantiated B.S. to me, but clearly you thought some part of it has some value because you wanted to share it with the whole board. What part would that be?

Among other things, I thought this was interesting:

• The decent studies show that the average performance of students is
  pretty clearly improved by unions. There are equivocal, or slightly
  negative effects at the top and bottom of the student achievement
  scales, but the overall positive effect is repeatable, significant and
  measurable, even after controlling for everything education researchers know how to control for.
  
  You can find citations to the studies I mention, and a bit more detail
  in an annotated bibliography I put together for a Rhode Island teacher union last year.

As I may have mentioned before, that underlined doo-dad is a hypertext link to a annotated bibliography referencing, among other things, the academic studies cited in the paragraph prior to the two quoted above. Presumably the whole link-thing baffles you, for otherwise you surely would not quote a blog post contained supporting citations, omit the citations, and then criticize the blogger for failing to offer substantiation. That would make you look like a fool.

Or maybe Sidd was right and you're looking for cartoons?

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally posted by Adder
This level of anti-intellectualism actually disqualifies you from claiming to be thoughtful.

To be clear, I'm not saying you have to believe what someone says because of their education and research experience. But if you actively discount what someone says because they have an established academic track record, you are the antithesis of a thoughtful person. Which surprised me from you.

He previously discounted what Kleiman said because Spanky thought he was just a blogger. You see the logic, right?

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally posted by Tyrone Slothrop
Spend a little time on Westlaw or Nexis and you can find plenty of stories from back in the day. For example, the May 31, 1987 Philadelphia Inquirer ran this story:

• BIRD'S 37 LIFTS CELTS TO EASTERN CONFERENCE TITLE
  
  Mike Bruton, Inquirer Staff Writer
  
  BOSTON Something took hold of the Boston Celtics in the last few minutes of their heated Game 7 confrontation with the Detroit Pistons.
  
  The Pistons, a strong-willed bunch who dared not to be in awe of the Celtics and Boston's bellowing crowd, refused to stop gnawing at the defending NBA champions.
  
  Yet in the final minutes, against a relentless team on an exhausting day, the Celtics ascended to a level on which only they could walk and prevailed, 117-114, to win the Eastern Conference championship series.
  
  "There's something inside us that makes us not want to lose," said Kevin McHale.
  
  "The way this series was going we didn't want to lose to them," McHale said. "It was very physical and (Dennis) Rodman was running around like a high school kid waving his arms. We made a collective decision not to lose and when we do that we rarely lose."
  
  Nothing was spared in the series, least of all anyone's feelings. Blood was shed, blows were struck.
  
  And now the Celtics will advance to the NBA finals against the Los Angeles Lakers, a best-of-seven series that will begin Tuesday at Inglewood, Calif.
  
  "I sort of wish this were the end of it," said Larry Bird, whose 37-point performance defied description, "but it's just another step to the finals."
  
  The parquet floor of the Boston Garden yesterday afternoon was no place for the faint-hearted.
  
  By the time the fourth quarter arrived, Adrian Dantley was en route to Massachusetts General Hospital, where he was to remain overnight for treatment of a concussion suffered when he bumped heads with teammate Vinnie Johnson diving for a loose ball near the end of the third quarter.
  
  Isiah Thomas, who had a mouse on the side of his left eye, looked like a prizefighter after a tough bout. Both teams, mindful of the fight between Bird and Bill Laimbeer in Game 3 and Robert Parish's attack on the Detroit center in Game 5, were more than eager to see their opponent vanquished.
  
  And when Boston took its final lead, Danny Ainge walked up to Rodman and did a running dance with his arm waving in the air. Moments later, Dennis Johnson repeated the gesture.
  
  "I've been waiting to do that Dennis Rodman dance since the beginning of the series," said Ainge, whose three-pointer with 3 minutes and 6 seconds left gave Boston a lead it never relinquished. "That wasn't intended for Detroit or anyone else on that team, only Dennis Rodman."
  
  Rodman was the victim of a fourth-quarter surge by Bird that carried the Celtics to the victory.
  
  Bird, who also had 9 rebounds and 9 assists, popped out for two 20-footers, made a running lefthanded shot off the glass and threw a textbook pass to Dennis Johnson on the baseline for an open jumper in the last 6 minutes.
  
  That's when Dantley's absence began to stand out. Having a rookie guarding Bird in that situation is like fighting a bear with a butter knife.
  
  Rodman fumed at an assertion that Bird took advantage of him.
  
  "I think he's overrated," Rodman said of Bird. " He's a great passer and real smart but other than that. . . . You've got Magic (Johnson) and Michael Jordan and Isiah."
  
  Thomas added: "Larry Bird is a very, very good basketball player, but I have to agree with Rodman. If he were black, he'd be just another good guy."
  
  The responses were an example of the Pistons' bitterness in the wake of this hard-fought series.
  
  The no-call by referee Jess Kersey when Parish punched Laimbeer in Game 5, which the Pistons lost on a last-ditch steal by Bird, was still fresh on their minds.
  
  "I don't want to get fined," Thomas said, making a veiled accusation that the officials give the Celtics preferential treatment, "but everyone in America knows what goes on in this building. We didn't win the series, but I believe we're the best basketball team."
  
  McHale answered, "That's his opinion."
  
  The momentum of the game tilted to the Celtics during an incredible sequence in which Boston kept getting offensive rebounds and got six shots at the basket.
  
  Joe Dumars, who was spectacular in leading Detroit with 35 points, hit a short baseline jumper to tie the game, 99-99, with 4:18 left.
  
  Then in the next minute and 12 seconds, Ainge missed, Bird missed twice, McHale missed and Parish had a shot blocked before Ainge hit a three-pointer to put the Celtics up, 102-99. Boston never trailed again.
  
  "We fought for those rebounds (before Ainge's basket)," McHale said. "We wanted them. Danny finally hit the three-pointer and that put us over the hump."
  
  And the Boston Celtics, once again, will vie for the NBA title.

I've bolded the quote by Thomas, but I included the whole story, since I was pretty sure that you'd want to be reminded of the context.

When you do look at news articles do you hunt for contrived ones so there isn't such a shock to your system from the absence of bloggables? the Rodman quote isn't even accurate. You can find the original Rodman quote on youtube. Why not the Isiah one? BECAUSE> IT DOESN"T EXIST>

Originally posted by SlaveNoMore
It is "somewhere", if it bothers you that boorish, pompous asses prefer to preach down from their bully pulpit and condemn other's behavior - of which they themselves are some of the worst offenders - then doing anything about it.

"Do as I say and not as I do"

Fuck yeah. Texas Air National Guard my ass!!!

Sea levels rise. Sea levels fall. So don't friggin' build $10MM on sand. 'Nuff said.

Exactly. And after a thousand years it will all be back to normal again, so what's with all the whining?

[SlaveNoMore]

Tyrone Slothrop

Is this the beginning of the Democrat-led recession?

Originally posted by SlaveNoMore
Is this the beginning of the Democrat-led recession?

Chickens, home, roost?

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally posted by Hank Chinaski
When you do look at news articles do you hunt for contrived ones so there isn't such a shock to your system from the absence of bloggables? the Rodman quote isn't even accurate. You can find the original Rodman quote on youtube. Why not the Isiah one? BECAUSE> IT DOESN"T EXIST>

Call the Philadelphia Inquirer and tell them that you paid a quarter for their paper on May 31, 1987, and you want it back, with interest. At 6% compounding, you'll make 80 cents (which ought to be well worth your time).

If that works, there are a lot more newspapers you can hit up. You can find them with Westlaw.

I prefer not to rely on YouTube for my news, but -- hey -- diffferent strokes and all that.

[SlaveNoMore]

ironweed
Chickens, home, roost?

Hey, how's that AMT doing you, right about now????

[SlaveNoMore]

Spanky
... Firing teachers: the evidence...

I haven't really read any of this because (i) I don't have kids - if I did, I'd send them to private school anyway - and (ii) we will always need an underclass of idiots to shine shoes, make my sandwich, et al., so who gives a fuck if they don't learn math.

But did anyone in this thread cite Steve Jobs comments the other day, basically agreeing with Spanky's premise?

[Gattigap]

Originally posted by SlaveNoMore
Hey, how's that AMT doing you, right about now????

Oh, shit is that cold. Don't get the reference, but the three question marks tell me that it was in. Weed's. face.

Weed, you gonna put up with that?