It was the wrong thread - Page 111

Cletus Miller · 10-20-2006, 05:41 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Penske_Account
I read it as implying that Ramos doesn't know his ass from his elbow and the judgment will go down in flames on appeal.

Oh, make no mistake, without plowing through the whole opinion, I agree that it has no chance of being upheld on appeal. Ramos clearly stepped past where he should have, but that doesn't resolve the underlying issue. In any event, don't you think that the result will be reversal followed by some sort of settlement? Especially after Spitzer decamps to the governor's mansion and starts planning, in earnest, for his presidential bid.

Penske_Account · 10-23-2006, 08:24 PM

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Cletus Miller · 10-23-2006, 08:36 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Penske_Account
Please send to

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Another miscarriage of justice?

Penske_Account · 10-23-2006, 09:00 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Cletus Miller
Another miscarriage of justice?

I am indifferent and have not followed the facts closely enough to render an opinion on his conviction, although generally speaking I think sentencing white collar criminals to 24 years in jail is waste of resources. Full time public service for 10 years plus fines would be a much more rewarding and productive result for the society that he inflicted damage on and I doubt if he would enjoy it much more.

bilmore · 10-24-2006, 01:15 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Cletus Miller
In any event, don't you think that the result will be reversal followed by some sort of settlement? Especially after Spitzer decamps to the governor's mansion and starts planning, in earnest, for his presidential bid.

More importantly, what the heck is Spitzer doing usurping the rights of the shareholders to bring suit on their own behalf?

Ah, but there's the rub - they probably wouldn't have. Grasso oversaw such a rise in shareholder value that they were likely only too happy to pay him what he got.

But Spitzer had a campaign to run, don'cha know . . .

Cletus Miller · 10-24-2006, 01:33 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by bilmore
More importantly, what the heck is Spitzer doing usurping the rights of the shareholders to bring suit on their own behalf?

Ah, but there's the rub - they probably wouldn't have. Grasso oversaw such a rise in shareholder value that they were likely only too happy to pay him what he got.

But Spitzer had a campaign to run, don'cha know . . .

Actual question--which I can't answer in ten seconds on google--who were the shareholders in the NYSE while Grasso was there (i.e. pre-ipo)? Grasso wasn't (couldn't be) given his comp in stock, so it's not the same as your typical highly-comp'd CEO.

I'm not sure how I feel about Spitzer's activist role for the AG in all of the financial services litigation, except that it was/is clearly designed as the centerpiece of his political campaigns, which I don't like. If a non-higher-office-seeking AG did the same thing, I don't know what I'd think about it.

Cletus Miller · 10-24-2006, 01:35 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Penske_Account
I am indifferent and have not followed the facts closely enough to render an opinion on his conviction, although generally speaking I think sentencing white collar criminals to 24 years in jail is waste of resources. Full time public service for 10 years plus fines would be a much more rewarding and productive result for the society that he inflicted damage on and I doubt if he would enjoy it much more.

Throw in some sort of home confinement or travel restrictions and I think that I'd agree with you.

ltl/fb · 10-24-2006, 01:49 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Cletus Miller
Actual question--which I can't answer in ten seconds on google--who were the shareholders in the NYSE while Grasso was there (i.e. pre-ipo)? Grasso wasn't (couldn't be) given his comp in stock, so it's not the same as your typical highly-comp'd CEO.

I'm not sure how I feel about Spitzer's activist role for the AG in all of the financial services litigation, except that it was/is clearly designed as the centerpiece of his political campaigns, which I don't like. If a non-higher-office-seeking AG did the same thing, I don't know what I'd think about it.

The There WERE no shareholders prior to the IPO. NYSE was a non-profit. Jesus H, people, do some fucking research before criticizing Spitzer. No, I have not researched what tax breaks it got. No, I don't know what kind of non-profit it was.

Think of the United Way head who got busted.

Cletus Miller · 10-24-2006, 02:17 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by ltl/fb
The There WERE no shareholders prior to the IPO. NYSE was a non-profit. Jesus H, people, do some fucking research before criticizing Spitzer. No, I have not researched what tax breaks it got. No, I don't know what kind of non-profit it was.

Think of the United Way head who got busted.

Hey, I did do some research, but was too lazy to really follow through. So, in the absence of shareholders, my follow-up question would be--Who besides the AG would have had standing to sue Grasso?

ltl/fb · 10-24-2006, 02:20 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Cletus Miller
Hey, I did do some research, but was too lazy to really follow through. So, in the absence of shareholders, my follow-up question would be--Who besides the AG would have had standing to sue Grasso?

the IRS? Not sure. Research the United Way case.

Though I think the NYSE was a different kind of nonprofit than the United Way is.

Penske_Account · 10-24-2006, 02:28 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Cletus Miller
Throw in some sort of home confinement or travel restrictions and I think that I'd agree with you.

Done. This can be a new paradigm for harmony between us!!!

:bounce:

Penske_Account · 10-24-2006, 02:31 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by ltl/fb
The There WERE no shareholders prior to the IPO. NYSE was a non-profit. Jesus H, people, do some fucking research before criticizing Spitzer. No, I have not researched what tax breaks it got. No, I don't know what kind of non-profit it was.

Think of the United Way head who got busted.

Why are you defending Spitzer? He is an opportunist socialist douchebagge?

Also, weren't the seatholders on the exchange somewaht akin to shareholders pre-IPO?

Cletus Miller · 10-24-2006, 02:34 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Penske_Account
Why are you defending Spitzer? He is an opportunist socialist douchebagge?

Also, weren't the seatholders on the exchange somewaht akin to shareholders pre-IPO?

Actually, as I think about it, with no research, doesn't the AG in most states have some sort of oversight role for NFPs? I have a faint recollection of something like that. Maybe it's just charities, but is there a legal corporate distinction (i.e. ignore the Code) between a charitable NFP and the NFP that the NYSE was?

Penske_Account · 10-24-2006, 02:44 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Cletus Miller
Actually, as I think about it, with no research, doesn't the AG in most states have some sort of oversight role for NFPs? I have a faint recollection of something like that. Maybe it's just charities, but is there a legal corporate distinction (i.e. ignore the Code) between a charitable NFP and the NFP that the NYSE was?

As I am not a member of the NY bar, yet,. I am wary of opining.....

Penske_Account · 10-24-2006, 02:46 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Penske_Account
Why are you defending Spitzer? He is an opportunist socialist douchebagge?

Also, weren't the seatholders on the exchange somewaht akin to shareholders pre-IPO?

And, with the Big Board about to open up its system to large electronic trades, the exchange's current owners, 1,366 shareholders -- called seatholders -- are faced with shrinking prospects for a return to the easy profits and cachet long associated with owning a spot on the raucous floor.