Fashion Board 1-08-04 through 02-03-04

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally posted by notcasesensitive
Why do most big shot* NY lawyers seem like such useless tools?

Because they are useless tools? Most of them long ago stopped practicing law, right?

[sebastian_dangerfield]

Originally posted by notcasesensitive
Why do most big shot* NY lawyers seem like such useless tools? Is this learned through some sort of mentoring program?


*in their own minds, of course. mainly the 6-12 year senior associate/junior partner types.

If you're in litigation, just file something against him - anything (motion to compel, motion for protective order, whatever) - and ask for oral argument. Mr. Blustery usually turns out to be Casper Milquetoast in front of the judge.

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally posted by ThurgreedMarshall
You forgot "substantive."

TM

opine, no one w/o law degree has ever said this word.

[notcasesensitive]

Originally posted by sebastian_dangerfield
If you're in litigation, just file something against him - anything (motion to comepl, motion for protective order, whatever) - and ask for oral argument. Mr. Blustery usually turns out to be Casper Liquetoast in front of the judge.

No. I get to deal with corporate/finance tools. It is fun pointing out to them when they are wrong on points of law though. Sudden stop in the conversation, followed by something to the effect of "fine, we will give on that particular point then..."

[SlaveNoMore]

bold_n_brazen
Well fuck you. Are you calling me a doormat?

I thought he called you a muffin.

Speaking of, where are those images of the sweatermittens?

[NotFromHere]

Mixed with a little bit of the law.

Martha gets a makeover for court. Ha. Hoping to relate to the little people on the jury, I'm sure.
Her stylist, however, should have purchased the appropriate size at the "plus size" store.



Jan. 19 issue - As Martha Stewart prepares to go on trial this month, she's carefully crafting a new, homespun image. Forget the high priestess of domesticity; she's now Martha From the Block.

Originally posted by notcasesensitive
No. I get to deal with corporate/finance tools. It is fun pointing out to them when they are wrong on points of law though. Sudden stop in the conversation, followed by something to the effect of "fine, we will give on that particular point then..."

Has it occured to you that maybe they are really excellent lawyers and that you are the tool?

[Greedy,Greedy,Greedy]

Originally posted by notcasesensitive
No. I get to deal with corporate/finance tools. It is fun pointing out to them when they are wrong on points of law though. Sudden stop in the conversation, followed by something to the effect of "fine, we will give on that particular point then..."

I find they usually have "big deal blinders". They know all the securities filings that need to be done, and get thrown when dealing with private, venture backed companies.

So I let them draft, discover that they've often pulled, for example, a public company voting agreement or charter and modified it for the deal (usually three associates working round the clock to modify it). They stick protective provisions in the wrong place and make all kinds of other rookie errors.

If you just figure out where their blank spots are, you can usually take advantage. Then you look up to them with great respect while chuckling to yourself. Clients are usually very amused.

[NotFromHere]

Originally posted by paigowprincess
Has it occured to you that maybe they are really excellent lawyers and that you are the tool?

BURN!

[taxwonk]

Originally posted by bold_n_brazen
Well fuck you. Are you calling me a doormat?

Yes. But you're a very intelligent, large, beautiful breasted, hot, desirable by smart men everywhere, doormat.

:kisscheek

[ltl/fb]

Originally posted by paigowprincess
Has it occured to you that maybe they are really excellent lawyers and that you are the tool?

Paigow, get a grip. They're tools. A few of the benefits people are non-tool-y, but the toolishness of non-benefits NY lawyers is glaring and almost universal. I can only speak personally of corporate lawyers, but unless NY has the general rule (litigators are toolier than transactional types) backwards, the litigators are no doubt tools too.

Or, every other lawyer across the country is a tool and we who are the tools instead of nice like the NY lawyers somehow all just get along in our toolishness.

And, how many carats?

[sebastian_dangerfield]

Originally posted by notcasesensitive
No. I get to deal with corporate/finance tools. It is fun pointing out to them when they are wrong on points of law though. Sudden stop in the conversation, followed by something to the effect of "fine, we will give on that particular point then..."

Yeh, that drives me nuts a bit. I always admit being wrong and move along because I find dumping the ego and mind games makes a settlement deal move more quickly. A little humor goes a long way to breaking the ice and getting people to communicate more easily, which will get you home earlier, which is all I really give a shit about after three hours of negotiating anything.

The worst guy is the cat who'd rather win a debate than stay on track. If you prove him wrong on a point, he subtly changes the issue to a scenario where he would be right so he can save face. This guy is a deal breaker. And right behind him is the scared guy who is concerned about utterly implausible hypothetical situations. He's the guy saying "Yes, but what if we WERE to be sued under admiralty law by a woman in Kansas alleging our bed sheets caused anal warts?" This cat has to be removed from negotiations because he freaks out the other side and makes them gun shy.

The good guys to work with are the ones who deal only with the relevant contingencies and speak in simple terms. Unfortunately, those poor bastards are always saddled with some egomaniac or library jockey because, well, lets face it... getting things done quickly makes none of us any money.

[ltl/fb]

Originally posted by sebastian_dangerfield
And right behind him is the scared guy who is concerned about utterly implausible hypothetical situations. He's the guy saying "Yes, but what if we WERE to be sued under admiralty law by a woman in Kansas alleging our bed sheets caused anal warts?" This cat has to be removed from negotiations because he freaks out the other side and makes them gun shy.

The good guys to work with are the ones who deal only with the relevant contingencies and speak in simple terms. Unfortunately, those poor bastards are always saddled with some egomaniac or library jockey because, well, lets face it... getting things done quickly makes none of us any money.

People worry more about implausible hypothetical situations after they get burned because the reps and warranties they put in a deal didn't cover something and they lost a ton of money.

But you big cats just keep going without sweating the small stuff. I like reading the cases that result.

[Shape Shifter]

Originally posted by sebastian_dangerfield
"Yes, but what if we WERE to be sued under admiralty law by a woman in Kansas alleging our bed sheets caused anal warts?"

Ah, plaintiff's work.

[Greedy,Greedy,Greedy]

Originally posted by sebastian_dangerfield
The worst guy is the cat who'd rather win a debate than stay on track. ....

And right behind him is the scared guy who is concerned about utterly implausible hypothetical situations. ...

The first guy is easy. Pick a few points you don't care about at all that are moderately important to them. Bump them up to near the top (partner at firm or 2nd chair at client). Dig in your heals. Let the debate roar. Throw fuel on the fire. Be unreasonable. Write memos. Have a grand time.

Meanwhile, let a junior sort out all the other issues, and get everything you care about tidied up and taken care of.

Then, very seriously, concede the point you've blown out of proportion to get the job done fast. Make it clear your concession is contingent on everyone working round the clock to do this in the next 48 hours. Don't give them time to think.

Second guy is actually more difficult. First, I try to turn them into a problem solver. Make the problem theirs and ask them to solve it. If this just leads to 89 pages of drafting to get what you would do in a paragraph, then you need to take control and drag them along. Go around them to clients. Those deals need a lot of top level folks getting their hands dirty.