Fashionistas you have arrived 3-25-03 - 10-3-03

Originally posted by LessinSF
People keep telling me to post over here, but all I see is a rehash of what we knew:

1. Paigow is pigheaded and wrong;
2. Everyone else knows it; yet
3. Y'all can't resist responding to her even though you would flee her table and a similar conversation IRL like an Iraqi_refugee, an ingrate, or a non-PC chef if you made the mistake of sitting next to her at dinner.

No argument here.

Originally posted by sebastian_dangerfield
PP,

As I've said before, those most prone to make class distinctions are those most uncomfortable with their class status. Phrased otherwise, if you have to blather about class, chances are you don't have it (whatever the hell you define it as, since your definition of class is conveniently fluid enough to change to fit whatever tortured argument you are offering).

I'm just a dumb hick (no Mayflower lineage here) but I've been a member at a few golf courses since I was a kid, and I know which forks to use, etc... I'm qualified to recognize the difference between nouveau/obnoxious and "class," so I'll offer you this observation - your posts do not evidence one who has a reservoir of what the white shoe crowd considers "class." Class is keeping your status in your pocket. I have never heard an old WASP talk like you. To the contrary, I've heard doctor's wives and overextended lawyers' kids ramble on about how "the new money wrecked the neighborhood." I've heard comments like yours among women exiting their leased Benzes at Neiman's or Saks in the King of Prussia Mall or Short Hills. And I've heard those same hollow laments from stupid young brokers and leveraged tech people at the bar in the Breakers. Your comments are all very Boca, but they ain't Palm Beach Proper.

That you made breast implants into a referdum on class underscores my points and leads me to the suspicion that your diatribes on class are deflections of insecurity about your own status. I'd say your comments sound like they were lifted from Yeats or Fitzgerald (two of the the most unabashed unworthy class critics of the 20th century) , but they actually come off more like Bret Easton Ellis.

S(you want judgment, you got it)D

That's just crass.

[Alex_de_Large]

Originally posted by dtb So, which is it NotBob? Chris Cooper or the Martindale/2d Darrin/MacMurray amalgam posited by paigow? (Who is that guy anyway?)

That's ESPN's Barry Melrose, naturally. The bigger issue is, Not Bob, do you have a mullet?

Originally posted by sebastian_dangerfield
Actually, PP, you don't know any "dirty little secrets," because the folks who would discuss those secrets simply wouldn't converse with your kind, and you know it.

You are entitled to any opinion under the sun, but you aren't entitled to speak on behalf of those who'd never even shake your hand.

By the way, "convo" is sooo '99, and soooo Stamford.

And don't say "I'm just making observations on what I think is class" - what you are really saying is "By an objective standard which I am privileged to know, I have class, and (insert target of ire here) doesn't." You don't get to make that call. You won't admit it here, but you goddamn well its true. Get over yourself.

S(this ain't personal - I still like you and wish you'd bag this bullshit attitude)D

That's even more crass.

Originally posted by Tyrone_Slothrop
A fun book: Class, by Paul Fussell. Sort of dated now, by kind of a field guide. You would particularly like it.

He says there are nine classes:

Top out-of-sight
Upper
Upper middle
--------
Middle
High proletarian
Mid-proletarian
Low proletarian
--------
Destitute
Bottom out-of-sight

edited to add content

Sounds like a very dull book.

Originally posted by Mister_Ruysbroeck
I'm not missing the point. I learned that lesson a couple days ago.

However, that doesn't make forwarding PMs any less shitty especially when they have nothing to do with the people they're being forwarded to. In this case, I was trying to address something I saw as a personal issue between me and paigow, and she decided to involve other people. To me, that's shitty.

In my mind, if someone takes up an issue they have with me in private, I wouldn't make that coversation public, even if I thought the person was off his or her rocker. Not because I am bound not to take it public, but because, in actuality, the person is showing a bit of discretion by addressing things in private and I appreciate that level of discretion. I mean, maybe there was a miscommunication and the person just wanted an explanation. Should other people be involved in that case?

Now, if the person is doing nothing more than flinging insults, then there should be no expectation of privacy, but that's not what happened here. While my tone may have been a bit confrontational, all that happened was that Paigow said something that made me wonder and I asked her about it in private. That made me a psycho, I guess, and justified sending around the "crazy" PMs she got from me.

In the end, I acknowledge this whole thing was all my fault. I should have known that paigow is incapable of using discretion when addressing personal matters.

edited: I see you posted something I agree with, namely, that if the PM is purely an insult, you run the risk of being exposed as a spineless jerk, but that isn't what happened with me and paigow.

Would you tell a secret to a hairstylist?

[Not Bob]

Originally posted by dtb
Interesting...

I have always pictured him as more of a Chris Cooper type (although that may be a result of his numerous references to Podunkville.)

So, which is it NotBob? Chris Cooper or the Martindale/2d Darrin/MacMurray amalgam posited by paigow? (Who is that guy anyway?)

"That guy" is Barry Melrose, former NHL coach and current ESPN hockey analyst. It's a temporary avatar only; I'll return to Bob Newhart shortly.

And as for my looks -- is it Chris Cooper or Wink+ Darren2 + Fred = Barry? Neither -- more of a Hal Holbrook as Mark Twain.

[Alex_de_Large]

Originally posted by Not Bob
"That guy" is Barry Melrose, former NHL coach and current ESPN hockey analyst. It's a temporary avatar only; I'll return to Bob Newhart shortly.

And as for my looks -- is it Chris Cooper or Wink+ Darren2 + Fred = Barry? Neither -- more of a Hal Holbrook as Mark Twain.

You still have not answered my question, NB...

[robustpuppy]

Originally posted by ThurgreedMarshall
That wasn't "so pissed off." That was typical TM complaint mode.

As for your actual argument, you must understand that sometimes those responses apply. So, when you say, "I heard that one already," it sounds much weaker than coming up with something your own self.

TM

Well to the extent I was making an actual argument -- sometimes the responses apply, and sometimes they don't. Of course, everybody else will judge the applicability of it when they read and form their own opinions, and their judgments will be informed by how they "get" the other poster.

For example, I believed Paigow when she said she was playing with "classy," but not because of her lengthy explanation, which smacked of protesting too much (becausethe "I was kidding" or "it was deliberate" or "you have fallen into my trap" response seems like a post-hoc thing even when it's not). I'm sensitive to it because it's not uncommon that people don't realize that I'm being facetious. Not just here, where it's to be expected because it ruins the fun if you point out the joke as you're making it, but IRL, too.

And like you, Francis, I've got standards that I impose on other people but can't always live up to myself. But it looks good on me, no?

[Atticus Grinch]

Originally posted by spookyfish
Although being a gay (or the plural, two or more gays) may have some of the trappings of a semi-secret society like the masons, and have cool handshakes or fezzes or something, I don't know.

Wait a minute. Are you saying your prior post was meant to imply that Mr. Dick Sargent was a gay? Just because his real name was Richard Cox doesn't prove anything. I'm sure lots of strapping young boys are named Dick Cox and they don't grow up to be one of the gayim. Indeed, they probably spurn all things penile, tempted as they may be. The way women named "Missy" and "Kitty" spurn the Junior League.

If you're implying that the ex-husband --- NOTE: ex-HUSBAND --- of the redoubtable Fannie Flagg of "Match Game PM" fame, and a very luscious and feminine panelist she was, and probably good in the sack, then you're going to just have to SHUT YOUR GODDAMN MOUTH about Mr. Dick Sargent. Next you'll be telling us that Elizabeth Montgomery battled alcohol. You're on deck for the Ignore list, bub.

[robustpuppy]

Originally posted by soup sandwich
Oh, c'mon puppy, don't wilt like this!



RP may be off base with regard to whether the "self-deprecating" angle is ineffective or not. I mean, shit, it may be a cop-out but at least there's some reasoning to it: Why'd you say this? I was being self-deprecating. Oh.

I'm not off base on the self-deprecating thing. I meant self-mocking. See, I was being self-mocking, because I used that defense myself in the past!

Am I not clever?

r (I wilt because I hate to be misunderstood, and I'm afraid of Thurgreed) p

p.s. the second part of the p.s. was a joke. I WAS KIDDING!

edited to change "Aren't I clever" to "Am I not clever," because the latter is so deliciously pretentiously grammatical.

[Alex_de_Large]

Socking again, paigow?

Ad(and no, as leagl pointed out, mods can't see through socks)L

[ThurgreedMarshall]

Originally posted by robustpuppy
blahdedy blah blah...smacked of...

This almost made me hit the ignore button. bleh. Do you really talk like that?

Originally posted by robustpuppy
the "I was kidding" or "it was deliberate" or "you have fallen into my trap" response seems like a post-hoc thing

I thought this was obvious. Typical paigow.

Originally posted by robustpuppy
And like you, Francis, I've got standards that I impose on other people but can't always live up to myself.

Are you suggesting that I don't live up to the many rules I think up? Bite your unpierced tongue. I am above reproach. As anyone can see, I am the master of doing as I say and saying as I...okay. I can't even finish that one.

TM

[robustpuppy]

Originally posted by ThurgreedMarshall
This almost made me hit the ignore button. bleh. Do you really talk like that?

What can I say, law school totally fucked me up.

Did it have the same effect on you, or was it a pre-existing condition?

(Uh, yeah, it took me a few minutes to think of that second line.)

[Replaced_Texan]

1.) Again, all cars that do not have me inside of them should not be allowed on the road.

2.) The next time I request a needs-to-happen-absolutely-under-all-circumstances-must-occur project for a deadline from the IT people, remind me to tell them that the compliance deadline is a month earlier than it really is. Their date of completion of the project and the compliance deadline should not be in the same calendar month.

3.) I don't make nearly enough money for the shit I am put through.

4.) I don't have nearly the budget for the shit I am expected to put through.

5.) (not nearly the same aggravation level as the rest, but a concern) Should I bring a gift to a dinner party that my cousin is hosting to announce his engagement to this side of the family? He's springing for a nice restaurant for about 15 or so of us.

6.) I found out I need glasses because I failed a drivers test to get my license. My laser surgeon is going to do a tune up, but I'm still not happy about this.

7.) Taxes.