Meet your new thread, same as the old thread.

[sebastian_dangerfield]

Originally posted by Tyrone Slothrop
For the sake of argument, would that be true if it were legal? How much of the exploitation of prostitutes comes from needing a pimp for protection in a black-market transaction?

That's not a for-sake-of-argument thing. That's a very concrete point. You're dead right. If it's legal, there are a lot less pimps and women who choose the field could get a lot more of their wages. Though, I guess when you remove the cost of pimps, there'd be a short race-to-the-basement price war. Still, like anything else, cream would rise and the most attractive and cleanest would probably command highest rates. In a lot of regards, keeping it illegal is doing a terrible disservice to prostitutes because it hurts their bottom line and discourages them from taking steps to make themselves more attractive and disease free (health care and beauty costs, etc.), which would benefit them economically and from a health perspective.

[sebastian_dangerfield]

Originally posted by taxwonk
You are aware it's written in Urdu?

As long as its got pictures...

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally posted by sebastian_dangerfield
That's not a for-sake-of-argument thing. That's a very concrete point. You're dead right. If it's legal, there are a lot less pimps and women who choose the field could get a lot more of their wages. Though,

you toiled in biglaw and you can still type this out? be ashamed.

[Replaced_Texan]

Originally posted by Tyrone Slothrop
For the sake of argument, would that be true if it were legal? How much of the exploitation of prostitutes comes from needing a pimp for protection in a black-market transaction?

Strip clubs and porn are legal. I've read a lot on the subject and it's not all roses and sunshine and buckets of cash for all the strippers and porn starlets out there. And one of my ex-boyfriends has been, at various points in time, a bouncer in a strip club and a part time porn producer. He did not recommend the sex trade as a good career path based on his experience working with sex workers. I consider a lot of former strippers to be friends. None of them got rich off of it.

I'm not saying that I object wholeheartedly to legitimizing sex workers, but I find in a lot of discussions about the subject, most people think in terms of the Best Little Whorehouse in Texas or Amsterdam and forget all about Monster and Bangkok.

Then again, Hustle & Flow got a lot of raves, so maybe people do remember and just don't care.

(Books on the shelf right next to me: Memoirs of a Sex Industry Survivor, by Anne Bissell, Bare: The Naked Truth About Stripping, by Elizabeth Eaves, A Mind of Its Own: A Cultural History of the Penis, by David M. Friedman, Obscene Profits: Entrepreneurs of Pornography in the Cyber Age, by Frederick Lane, Ivy League Stripper by Heidi Mattson, The Other Hollywood: The Uncensored Oral History of the Porn Film Industry by Legs McNeil and Jennifer Osborne, A History of the Wife, by Marilyn Yalom. I lent Strip City: A Stripper's Farewell Journey Across America by Lily Burana to someone and I'm not sure what happened to it, and I've read quite a few others on the same subject. I should have been a researcher at the Kinsey Institute. There's good and there's bad. I'm not quite sure I give a shit about the consumer, but I care quite a lot about the ultimate service provider.)

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally posted by Replaced_Texan
Strip clubs and porn are legal. I've read a lot on the subject and it's not all roses and sunshine and buckets of cash for all the strippers and porn starlets out there. And one of my ex-boyfriends has been, at various points in time, a bouncer in a strip club and a part time porn producer. He did not recommend the sex trade as a good career path based on his experience working with sex workers. I consider a lot of former strippers to be friends. None of them got rich off of it.

I'm not saying that I object wholeheartedly to legitimizing sex workers, but I find in a lot of discussions about the subject, most people think in terms of the Best Little Whorehouse in Texas or Amsterdam and forget all about Monster and Bangkok.

Then again, Hustle & Flow got a lot of raves, so maybe people do remember and just don't care.

(Books on the shelf right next to me: Memoirs of a Sex Industry Survivor, by Anne Bissell, Bare: The Naked Truth About Stripping, by Elizabeth Eaves, A Mind of Its Own: A Cultural History of the Penis, by David M. Friedman, Obscene Profits: Entrepreneurs of Pornography in the Cyber Age, by Frederick Lane, Ivy League Stripper by Heidi Mattson, The Other Hollywood: The Uncensored Oral History of the Porn Film Industry by Legs McNeil and Jennifer Osborne, A History of the Wife, by Marilyn Yalom. I lent Strip City: A Stripper's Farewell Journey Across America by Lily Burana to someone and I'm not sure what happened to it, and I've read quite a few others on the same subject. I should have been a researcher at the Kinsey Institute. There's good and there's bad. I'm not quite sure I give a shit about the consumer, but I care quite a lot about the ultimate service provider.)

this is really long and hard to concentrate through. can't you post some visuals?

[sgtclub]

Originally posted by Replaced_Texan
What process are you talking about? With the exception of some first generation Americans of Indian descent*, I don't know anyone whose parents were involved in the engagment. Nor do I know many people who didn't first live together before they got married or whose parents paid for the bulk of the wedding.

Are you just talking about an egagement ring?

*and I'm actually pretty sure a dowry was involved in those marriages.

The dating process.

[Replaced_Texan]

Originally posted by Hank Chinaski
this is really long and hard to concentrate through. can't you post some visuals?

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally posted by Replaced_Texan

I'm sorry but looking at these i don't get a palpable sense of exploitation. maybe some other picture better convey the emotion?

[ltl/fb]

Originally posted by sgtclub
The dating process.

You're dating the wrong women.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally posted by Hank Chinaski
I'm sorry but looking at these i don't get a palpable sense of exploitation.

You're dating the wrong woman.

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally posted by Tyrone Slothrop
You're dating the wrong woman.

i was asking out the right one, but now I'm on ignore

[Diane_Keaton]

Originally posted by sebastian_dangerfield
I'd allow people to walk away from marriages without having to pay any alimony or settelement save child support if they can prove the spouse entered the marriage (a) just because he or she desperately wanted to be married or wanted a child or (b) for any sort of economic gain. They'd call it a "marrying for illegitimate reasons" law.

Okay, so one of the disqualifiers would be if someone got married because she or he desperately wanted to be married. First of all, that's hilarious as a legal standard. Second, WTF? Chick stays home, raises kids and puts hubby through law school and needs alimony to go back to school and stuff? Well, it turns out back then she desparately wanted to get married and raise kids, so she gets nothing, not even temporary alimony to go back to school. Anyhow, proposing a "wanted to get married and have kids desparately" standard is Aren't you a litigator? Jeesh.

As for disqualifying based on "marrying for any sort of economic gain", what happened to your being okay with a rich, fat, bald investment banker who marries a hot chick and he gets to have her "lie under him" and she gets his money? Rich fat bald guy should know enough to get a prenup. Fuck him.

Finally, about that friend who was "raked over the coals": don't assume he's a "prince" and that there isn't another side to the story.

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally posted by Diane_Keaton
Okay, so one of the disqualifiers would be if someone got married because she or he desperately wanted to be married. First of all, that's hilarious as a legal standard. Second, WTF? Chick stays home, raises kids and puts hubby through law school and needs alimony to go back to school and stuff? Well, it turns out back then she desparately wanted to get married and raise kids, so she gets nothing, not even temporary alimony to go back to school. Anyhow, proposing a "wanted to get married and have kids desparately" standard is Aren't you a litigator? Jeesh.

As for disqualifying based on "marrying for any sort of economic gain", what happened to your being okay with a rich, fat, bald investment banker who marries a hot chick and he gets to have her "lie under him" and she gets his money? Rich fat bald guy should know enough to get a prenup. Fuck him.

Finally, about that friend who was "raked over the coals": don't assume he's a "prince" and that there isn't another side to the story.

just fyi on basic board rules- you don't get a win count for showing some sebby post was a bit overstated.

[sgtclub]

Originally posted by ltl/fb
You're dating the wrong women.

Really? When was the last time you went out with a guy and expected to pay? Fuck that, when was the last time you went out?

[Diane_Keaton]

Originally posted by Replaced_Texan
I'm not saying that I object wholeheartedly to legitimizing sex workers, but I find in a lot of discussions about the subject, most people think in terms of the Best Little Whorehouse in Texas or Amsterdam and forget all about Monster and Bangkok.

I don't think making prostitution a legal form of employment (and hence, a potential career choice for any girl or boy turning 18) is a good idea at all. The "happy hooker" schtick is a myth. Even if it's legal, there will still be a big structure built around it with profits for others and the sex workers won't end up with much financial or other power. Union concepts aren't going to work here. And the power structure will prey on the vulnerable to suck them in. For most, prostitution is not going to be liberating like it was for Belle de Jour.