[hi less!!!]Where Everyone Knows Penske's Socks Don't Suck[/hi less!!!]!!!

[str8outavannuys]

My brother, who is running weight loss camps this summer, in addition to his school, has shared with me correspondence with another nutjob parent.

Background: The camps each have a ranking system, and campers progress upwards as they reach goals. At one camp, the top rank is "Shaman."


E-mail #1:

Dear [Str8's Brother],

I'm writing to follow-up on the issue of Shamanism in the tribal system. I have yet to hear back from you regarding your decision to implement the Warrior and Chieftain ranks to replace that of the Shaman and Chief Shaman. As I mentioned in my earlier email, we are willing and able to assist with any changes, logistics, materials, etc. to make this effective for this summer's camp, as we do NOT want to expose our daughter, and the other kids attending, to this mysticism and form of Indian sorcery.

If you will recall I contacted you a few months before the camp to ask about the possibility of matching up [camper] with a behavioral coach and/or camp counselor(s) who might share, or at least respect, her faith in Jesus. One concern that I had was that in the milieu of health and wellness these days there is an abundance of new-age, mystic thinking that surrounds otherwise viable science. A strong draw to WAC was the balance and objectivity of Dr. Kirschenbaum and his approach to fitness and weight control as principally and athletic endeavor, and his strong reliance on fact and science. We also appreciate that one source of motivation in the closing chapter of his book is drawn from the book Hebrews, chapter 12.

I bring all of this up as a reminder that you were emphatic on the phone that no criticism or interference with a camper's faith or beliefs would be tolerated. The inclusion of Shamanism in the rewards system definitely contradicts your earlier statement.

As you may have experienced with me during our brief phone calls so far, I'm a fair-minded, constructively creative individual - that's why I spent the time, energy and research to come up with alternatives before I contacted you a couple of weeks ago about this matter.

Once more, I need to understand how we can help change this system - this summer.
I appreciate that you may believe this trivial, but it is not. It is most certainly not.

I look forward to hearing from you soon, and please note that we'll be on family vacation at a private cabin in _________ beginning this Sunday, and will be available to assist you, Deb or anyone else at camp in order to employ the suggested changes mentioned above (remotely from our location, of course).

E-mail #2:

Mr. [Nutjob],

I've thought a lot about our conversation and spoken to a number of people, including staff members at Camp, colleagues, friends (some of whom are Evangelical Christians) and some parents.

While this is something we may change next year, it is not something we will be changing this year.

Here are the reasons I have come to this decision.

1) While the word Shaman does have the connotation you mention, our intention was the alternative meaning of "wise man" or "sage." As the attached document says, Shaman is tied to "mastery," "help," and being a "positive role model." Nothing at all related to the spiritualist meaning of the word has been communicated or conveyed to campers in any way. For the vast majority of campers, this is the first time they have heard the word. We intend to continue reinforcing this definition of the word in our communications about the level system this year.

2) Level system charts have been posted in all cabins. Campers are familiar with the system and the established terminology.

3) No one else I have consulted with finds the use of this word objectionable, particularly in the context we are using it in.

4) We need to keep our eye on the ball, which is the long-term health of the adolescents we are working with.

I wish I could be more helpful, especially since you've been so cogent, reasonable and willing to help out in our discussion about this issue.

Sincerely, [Str8's brother]

E-mail #3:

Thanks for your reply.

While I respect your deliberation and response, you couldn't be more wrong by asserting that the title of Shaman has a benign meaning. You can assign whatever alternate meanings you desire, but it doesn't change what this word and title means. Whether or not your intent was to convey the title of a wise man or sage, the meaning of the word is clear and it invites harmful spiritual jurisdictional issues over the kids, the staff and the camp. Please pardon any offense, but your position is uninformed and demonstrates a lack of serious understanding regarding this matter. Here's reality - the unseen supernatural realm is as real as the natural we see, whether one chooses to believe in it or not. And just to be clear - I'm not a religious man, but I am deeply spiritual. I'm also an extremely successful and respected business leader in Austin - just so that you know you're not dealing with someone on the fringe.

Also, despite your assertion this is not the first time that [camper] (and other students her age or older) have heard these words or concepts. 7th grade Texas state history (and many other public school curriculums) teach a great deal about Indian culture, ritual and belief systems, including info on Shamans.

You assert that no spiritualist meaning of the word has been conveyed, however, the very word is the title of a spiritual leader, with deep and long standing meaning and power in Indian and other Eastern and Russian cultures. This is not a myth or legend, this is an actual word that has meaning - one of rank, of power and influence - animistic, demonic, spiritual influence. And it is a practice that takes place today, and is actually growing in use and popularity. It takes less than 30 seconds to establish these facts via a Google search (see attached for one such example of an overview that I easily located online - you need to review this as it includes the potential real dangers introduced and invited by association with Shamanism).

By following your line of reasoning, any words that the kids don't yet understand or comprehend could have been used and redefined if they weren't apparently offensive or objectionable. Say, for instance, your top ranking was that of Chief Wizard or Warlock (e.g. if you're ranking system drew upon the current fascination and popularity of Harry Potter). Seemingly harmless, but per the commands of God in the laws handed down to Israel (and later onto all peoples), this is a serious offense against God. And simple ignorance is not an excuse. If you persist you are inviting opposition from the very One who created these kids, and I don't believe you want that on your team's conscience (you need to take seriously Jesus' warning in Matthew 18 verse 6!).

Yes, you must keep focused there, but not at the expense of that which is much more important that the physical health of these kids. You may not share my belief, but you must respect it and the authority upon which it is based. The spiritual lives of these kids matter, and the system you are implementing, as it currently stands, invites spiritual oppression into their lives that they are not even aware of (and apparently neither are you or your colleagues).

We can supply your reprinted, revised posters and charts - high-quality, laminated, etc. overnight upon your approval. Logistically this is not a big deal, and the kids won't think twice about it if you decide not to make a big issue of it. None of them have even approached the upper levels at this point, and the greatest risk you bear is a possible awkward moment or two in explaining that this tribal award system is a work in progress, and as part of your ongoing role in leadership you decided to modify it a bit. It will make NO difference to the kids that this has been changed, but it will welcome a world of unnecessary evil if you allow it to remain as it is.

I know that this issue is inconvenient for you, but truth sometimes pokes through at inconvenient times, in bothersome ways.
Nevertheless, you need to take action and resolve this matter, and the sooner the better.

[Sidd Finch]

Originally posted by ThurgreedMarshall
You, my friend, are in the wrong place.

TM

Don't tell me to take it to Politics -- there's some nasty shit going on over there (alternating sniping about the Iraq war with, god help us, lengthy posts debating the merits of defined benefits plans. I kid you not.)

I just thought it was..... odd for people to be correcting grammar while people were posting about unaccounted-for family members.

And odder still to expect Hank to use "en masse". I mean, c'mon -- that's French. If we use French, the terrorists will win.

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally posted by str8outavannuys
My brother, who is running weight loss camps this summer, in addition to his school, has shared with me correspondence with another nutjob parent.

Background: The camps each have a ranking system, and campers progress upwards as they reach goals. At one camp, the top rank is "Shaman."


E-mail #1:

Dear [Str8's Brother],

I'm writing to follow-up on the issue of Shamanism in the tribal system. I have yet to hear back from you regarding your decision to implement the Warrior and Chieftain ranks to replace that of the Shaman and Chief Shaman. As I mentioned in my earlier email, we are willing and able to assist with any changes, logistics, materials, etc. to make this effective for this summer's camp, as we do NOT want to expose our daughter, and the other kids attending, to this mysticism and form of Indian sorcery.

If you will recall I contacted you a few months before the camp to ask about the possibility of matching up [camper] with a behavioral coach and/or camp counselor(s) who might share, or at least respect, her faith in Jesus. One concern that I had was that in the milieu of health and wellness these days there is an abundance of new-age, mystic thinking that surrounds otherwise viable science. A strong draw to WAC was the balance and objectivity of Dr. Kirschenbaum and his approach to fitness and weight control as principally and athletic endeavor, and his strong reliance on fact and science. We also appreciate that one source of motivation in the closing chapter of his book is drawn from the book Hebrews, chapter 12.

I bring all of this up as a reminder that you were emphatic on the phone that no criticism or interference with a camper's faith or beliefs would be tolerated. The inclusion of Shamanism in the rewards system definitely contradicts your earlier statement.

As you may have experienced with me during our brief phone calls so far, I'm a fair-minded, constructively creative individual - that's why I spent the time, energy and research to come up with alternatives before I contacted you a couple of weeks ago about this matter.

Once more, I need to understand how we can help change this system - this summer.
I appreciate that you may believe this trivial, but it is not. It is most certainly not.

I look forward to hearing from you soon, and please note that we'll be on family vacation at a private cabin in _________ beginning this Sunday, and will be available to assist you, Deb or anyone else at camp in order to employ the suggested changes mentioned above (remotely from our location, of course).

E-mail #2:

Mr. [Nutjob],

I've thought a lot about our conversation and spoken to a number of people, including staff members at Camp, colleagues, friends (some of whom are Evangelical Christians) and some parents.

While this is something we may change next year, it is not something we will be changing this year.

Here are the reasons I have come to this decision.

1) While the word Shaman does have the connotation you mention, our intention was the alternative meaning of "wise man" or "sage." As the attached document says, Shaman is tied to "mastery," "help," and being a "positive role model." Nothing at all related to the spiritualist meaning of the word has been communicated or conveyed to campers in any way. For the vast majority of campers, this is the first time they have heard the word. We intend to continue reinforcing this definition of the word in our communications about the level system this year.

2) Level system charts have been posted in all cabins. Campers are familiar with the system and the established terminology.

3) No one else I have consulted with finds the use of this word objectionable, particularly in the context we are using it in.

4) We need to keep our eye on the ball, which is the long-term health of the adolescents we are working with.

I wish I could be more helpful, especially since you've been so cogent, reasonable and willing to help out in our discussion about this issue.

Sincerely, [Str8's brother]

E-mail #3:

Thanks for your reply.

While I respect your deliberation and response, you couldn't be more wrong by asserting that the title of Shaman has a benign meaning. You can assign whatever alternate meanings you desire, but it doesn't change what this word and title means. Whether or not your intent was to convey the title of a wise man or sage, the meaning of the word is clear and it invites harmful spiritual jurisdictional issues over the kids, the staff and the camp. Please pardon any offense, but your position is uninformed and demonstrates a lack of serious understanding regarding this matter. Here's reality - the unseen supernatural realm is as real as the natural we see, whether one chooses to believe in it or not. And just to be clear - I'm not a religious man, but I am deeply spiritual. I'm also an extremely successful and respected business leader in Austin - just so that you know you're not dealing with someone on the fringe.

Also, despite your assertion this is not the first time that [camper] (and other students her age or older) have heard these words or concepts. 7th grade Texas state history (and many other public school curriculums) teach a great deal about Indian culture, ritual and belief systems, including info on Shamans.

You assert that no spiritualist meaning of the word has been conveyed, however, the very word is the title of a spiritual leader, with deep and long standing meaning and power in Indian and other Eastern and Russian cultures. This is not a myth or legend, this is an actual word that has meaning - one of rank, of power and influence - animistic, demonic, spiritual influence. And it is a practice that takes place today, and is actually growing in use and popularity. It takes less than 30 seconds to establish these facts via a Google search (see attached for one such example of an overview that I easily located online - you need to review this as it includes the potential real dangers introduced and invited by association with Shamanism).

By following your line of reasoning, any words that the kids don't yet understand or comprehend could have been used and redefined if they weren't apparently offensive or objectionable. Say, for instance, your top ranking was that of Chief Wizard or Warlock (e.g. if you're ranking system drew upon the current fascination and popularity of Harry Potter). Seemingly harmless, but per the commands of God in the laws handed down to Israel (and later onto all peoples), this is a serious offense against God. And simple ignorance is not an excuse. If you persist you are inviting opposition from the very One who created these kids, and I don't believe you want that on your team's conscience (you need to take seriously Jesus' warning in Matthew 18 verse 6!).

Yes, you must keep focused there, but not at the expense of that which is much more important that the physical health of these kids. You may not share my belief, but you must respect it and the authority upon which it is based. The spiritual lives of these kids matter, and the system you are implementing, as it currently stands, invites spiritual oppression into their lives that they are not even aware of (and apparently neither are you or your colleagues).

We can supply your reprinted, revised posters and charts - high-quality, laminated, etc. overnight upon your approval. Logistically this is not a big deal, and the kids won't think twice about it if you decide not to make a big issue of it. None of them have even approached the upper levels at this point, and the greatest risk you bear is a possible awkward moment or two in explaining that this tribal award system is a work in progress, and as part of your ongoing role in leadership you decided to modify it a bit. It will make NO difference to the kids that this has been changed, but it will welcome a world of unnecessary evil if you allow it to remain as it is.

I know that this issue is inconvenient for you, but truth sometimes pokes through at inconvenient times, in bothersome ways.
Nevertheless, you need to take action and resolve this matter, and the sooner the better.

Suggest to your brother he ask the guy if he'd accept mensch as an acceptable alternative.

[Sidd Finch]

Originally posted by str8outavannuys
E-mail #3:
And just to be clear - I'm not a religious man, but I am deeply spiritual. I'm also an extremely successful and respected business leader in Austin - just so that you know you're not dealing with someone on the fringe.

Would you be willing to send my name and contact info to this guy? I have other clients in Austin who can recommend me, and I'd be willing to represent him if he wants to sue your brother's camp over this.

Thanks.

[robustpuppy]

Originally posted by Hank Chinaski
Suggest to your brother he ask the guy if he'd accept mensch as an acceptable alternative.

Or shiksa goddess.

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally posted by Sidd Finch
Don't tell me to take it to Politics -- there's some nasty shit going on over there (alternating sniping about the Iraq war with, god help us, lengthy posts debating the merits of defined benefits plans. I kid you not.)

I just thought it was..... odd for people to be correcting grammar while people were posting about unaccounted-for family members.

And odder still to expect Hank to use "en masse". I mean, c'mon -- that's French. If we use French, the terrorists will win.

Why isn't "in mass" correct also? It does make sense, even if its use was ill-informed?

dtb- do you long for the olden days when only royalty could wirte?

[NotFromHere]

Dear Paigow,
I have taken the time out of my busy day to remind you that, if you care anymore, Big Brother begins tonight. Remember, this year, everyone has a secret.
This woman's secret, is that she has managed to butcher the spelling of Ashley.

Ashlea
Loves Sean Penn, Coldplay and chocolate chip cookies.

This woman's secret is that she's in love with herself.

Janelle
Loves Trance music, the Vikings and cheerleading.

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally posted by NotFromHere
Dear Paigow,
I have taken the time out of my busy day to remind you that, if you care anymore, Big Brother begins tonight. Remember, this year, everyone has a secret.
This woman's secret, is that she has managed to butcher the spelling of Ashley.

Ashlea
Loves Sean Penn, Coldplay and chocolate chip cookies.

This woman's secret is that she's in love with herself.

Janelle
Loves Trance music, the Vikings and cheerleading.

why didn't you tell us about Leo's skydiving accident? you are in danger of being seen as shallow if you don't start catching the harder news stories.

[andViolins]

Originally posted by str8outavannuys
Fighting the spiritual world through low carb and the bible

Has anyone googled to see if there are baby jebus fat camps out there?

aV

[dtb]

Originally posted by Hank Chinaski
[Q1]Why isn't "in mass" correct also? [Q?2]It does make sense, even if its use was ill-informed?

[Q3]dtb- do you long for the olden days when only royalty could wirte?

A1: Because "in mass" means during a religious ceremony. You could have said "in a mass" and that would have conveyed (correctly) the meaning that I think you intended.

A2: As written, this is an assertion, not a question; but if you're asking whether it makes sense, despite the misspelling, the answer is "yes" -- although I did stumble over it when I first read it. Furthermore, I don't agree that its use was ill-informed (if what you're trying to say is that an attempt at using the phrase "en masse" was somehow ill-informed).

A3. Do I ever. Sigh.

[robustpuppy]

Originally posted by dtb
A1: Because "in mass" means during a religious ceremony. You could have said "in a mass" and that would have conveyed (correctly) the meaning that I think you intended.

A2: As written, this is an assertion, not a question; but if you're asking whether it makes sense, despite the misspelling, the answer is "yes" -- although I did stumble over it when I first read it. Furthermore, I don't agree that its use was ill-informed (if what you're trying to say is that an attempt at using the phrase "en masse" was somehow ill-informed).

A3. Do I ever. Sigh.

I can't believe you're even showing your virtual face around here, let alone continuing with your grammatical diatribes, after your blatantly disrespectful display earlier today.

[str8outavannuys]

Michelle's fought back from being 2 over early to get back to even par through 12. Looks like the cut will be somewhere between even and 2 under, so she can't go backwards. She has 4 birdies and 4 bogeys thus far. She failed to birdie the par 5 tenth, not a good sign.

[Mmmm, Burger (C.J.)]

Originally posted by str8outavannuys
My brother, who is running weight loss camps this summer, in addition to his school, has shared with me correspondence with another nutjob parent.

Why doesn't your brother just tell the fatty's dad to find another fat camp?

I mean, other than for the fact that it would deprive us of amusing anecdotes?

[Mmmm, Burger (C.J.)]

Originally posted by str8outavannuys
Michelle's fought back from being 2 over early to get back to even par through 12. Looks like the cut will be somewhere between even and 2 under, so she can't go backwards. She has 4 birdies and 4 bogeys thus far. She failed to birdie the par 5 tenth, not a good sign.

Translation: Little str8-basil will be sleeping in a van down by the river come Friday night.

[dtb]

Originally posted by robustpuppy
I can't believe you're even showing your virtual face around here, let alone continuing with your grammatical diatribes, after your blatantly disrespectful display earlier today.

I have no shame. What can I say?