Discussion of Firms and Life in SF/SV

[Greedy,Greedy,Greedy]

Originally Posted by Atticus Grinch

(1) You don’t have to be from Marin to be a douchebag, but it helps.

(2) Napa County is a small fuckin' town in which to do legal work. I’m sure the QOL doesn't suck, but don’t kid yourself — 95% of the wine business is straight-up agriculture. It’s not glamorous. All the issues are about farm labor and where you store the shit that smells.

(3) Santa Rosa is a real city with real businesses, and it will probably grow. Find a job there and you’re going to be okay. Live there and think you’ll commute to the City? Dream on. Misery. Petaluma is probably an even better place to live, but same essential problem. Sonoma County is a good place to be rich, but so's everyplace.

(4) I’m the guy who says you should have your kids within driving distance of your parents or hers, and a set of cousins if possible. Life is easier if you have a support system you don’t have to pay taxes on.

He said his SO is in the wine business. Isn't the right answer here for him to be a gentlemen lawyer/farmer somewhere in wine country, hang with the rich folks in their mansions and yachts north of the bridge, and show up in SF every now and then for some culture?

I think you all are trying to plan a hardworking urban lawyer life for the guy. Solamen miseris socios habuisse doloris.

[Mister_Ruysbroeck]

Thanks for the comments. We're still weighing options. Boston vs SF vs Chicago (been there, done that). Lots to consider. Might just start applying for jobs and see what happens...

[Pretty Little Flower]

Originally Posted by Flinty_McFlint

North of the Golden Gate Bridge? Immediately to the North are yachts, mansions and wine country, and then north of that are cows.

I once dated a chick who grew up north of the cows. North of the cows are Redwoods and really good pot. There may be more cows, too, but once you're on the pot, you tend to notice the Redwoods more. I mean, that's what she told me. I only get high on life and America.

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally Posted by Pretty Little Flower

I once dated a chick who grew up north of the cows. North of the cows are Redwoods and really good pot. There may be more cows, too, but once you're on the pot, you tend to notice the Redwoods more. I mean, that's what she told me. I only get high on life and America.

I've quoted this so that everyone can better understand why it is so easy for me to win "most helpful" year after year.

[Sidd Finch]

Originally Posted by Hank Chinaski

I've quoted this so that everyone can better understand why it is so easy for me to win "most helpful" year after year.

Because we're all stoned?

[LessinSF]

Originally Posted by Sidd Finch

Because we're all stoned?

If CA completely legalizes it, like CO and WA, there will be a lot of pot-related legal work. Everything from simple incorporations to IPOs and regulatory work.

LessinOttawa

[Atticus Grinch]

Originally Posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy

He said his SO is in the wine business. Isn't the right answer here for him to be a gentlemen lawyer/farmer somewhere in wine country, hang with the rich folks in their mansions and yachts north of the bridge, and show up in SF every now and then for some culture?

(1) "I’m in the wine business (East Coast)" = "I buy cases and sell bottles." "I’m in the wine business (West Coast)" = "I buy harvests and sell grapes" or "I buy grapes and sell cases."

(2) I’d love to be a gentleman farmer. But these days to get there you have to pay your dues. Napa and Sonoma are lousy with law practice money; unless MR has serious bank, there’s no room at that baccarat table anymore.

(3) You know a good way to make a small fortune in the wine game? Start with a large one.

It’s probably a good gig if he can get it, but can he get it?

[Icky Thump]

Originally Posted by Mister_Ruysbroeck

Wow, this whole discussion was exactly what I came here for. I knew you guys would have some good advice about SF.

I've been going through some major life changes over the last year and the current plan being discussed is a move to SF. Kids are on the horizon, so this discussion has been very helpful.

It's unlikely that we'll have much of a support network if we move, though my SO's sister and BF might make the move with us. We may even be able to convince SO's mom to make the move. My brother and his wife may end up in San Diego in a couple of years, but if we go out there alone, I'm worried it will be tough to have kids there.

Option B is Boston, where my SO is from and where her family currently lives. The problem is I am tired of the weather where I live and going to Boston doesn't give me much of a change.

I also really don't feel like taking the CA Bar. To be honest, I hate being a lawyer and this might be a good excuse to pursue an alternate career path. That said, starting over at this stage in my life in a city where the COL is so high is a little scary.

Anyone have experience living north of SF proper? What's on the other side of that big red bridge, anyway? All comments, including snarky ones, are appreciated. Thanks.

Expensive area with kids and without a support network is tough unless you have meeeelions of dollars.

[Hank Chinaski]

Originally Posted by Atticus Grinch

(1) "I’m in the wine business (East Coast)" = "I buy cases and sell bottles." "I’m in the wine business (West Coast)" = "I buy harvests and sell grapes" or "I buy grapes and sell cases."

(2) I’d love to be a gentleman farmer. But these days to get there you have to pay your dues. Napa and Sonoma are lousy with law practice money; unless MR has serious bank, there’s no room at that baccarat table anymore.

(3) You know a good way to make a small fortune in the wine game? Start with a large one.

It’s probably a good gig if he can get it, but can he get it?

I can't answer any of those questions, but if someone tells mr r "you want that $$, suck at my ass" He may be willing to do that, whereas you or I may not. So don't be so negative?

[Greedy,Greedy,Greedy]

Originally Posted by Atticus Grinch

(1) "I’m in the wine business (East Coast)" = "I buy cases and sell bottles." "I’m in the wine business (West Coast)" = "I buy harvests and sell grapes" or "I buy grapes and sell cases."

(2) I’d love to be a gentleman farmer. But these days to get there you have to pay your dues. Napa and Sonoma are lousy with law practice money; unless MR has serious bank, there’s no room at that baccarat table anymore.

(3) You know a good way to make a small fortune in the wine game? Start with a large one.

It’s probably a good gig if he can get it, but can he get it?

MR, after you and your SO pick up that Vineyard, remember, I'm the one who believed in you, I'm the one who didn't think you'd end up in some dead-end urban law firm sucking up to the plushbottoms to eke out a lousy few hundred grand a year.

[Sidd Finch]

Originally Posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy

MR, after you and your SO pick up that Vineyard, remember, I'm the one who believed in you, I'm the one who didn't think you'd end up in some dead-end urban law firm sucking up to the plushbottoms to eke out a lousy few hundred grand a year.

This is what I do. But I'm also in the wine business, as a consumer. No rain in California this year? BFD -- in a couple of years I'll drink French or Italian wine instead. Euro gets too high? I'll go back to Cali wine.

My point: Actually producing anything is overrated.

[Jack Manfred]

Originally Posted by Mister_Ruysbroeck

Wow, this whole discussion was exactly what I came here for. I knew you guys would have some good advice about SF.

I've been going through some major life changes over the last year and the current plan being discussed is a move to SF. Kids are on the horizon, so this discussion has been very helpful.

It's unlikely that we'll have much of a support network if we move, though my SO's sister and BF might make the move with us. We may even be able to convince SO's mom to make the move. My brother and his wife may end up in San Diego in a couple of years, but if we go out there alone, I'm worried it will be tough to have kids there.

Option B is Boston, where my SO is from and where her family currently lives.

Anyone have experience living north of SF proper? What's on the other side of that big red bridge, anyway? All comments, including snarky ones, are appreciated. Thanks.

When I worked in SF, the rainmaker at my firm lived in Marin. I agree with the comments about Santa Rosa and Petaluma. A recent article named Healdsburg best small town in the US, but I wouldn't try to start a law practice there.

Do NOT live in Richmond. Or Vallejo. Much of Oakland is up-and-coming. If you wanted to start a family in the Bay Area, Livermore might be a good option. That's east and south of SF. They have wineries there that are less prestigious than those in Napa and Sonoma. It would be a LONG commute on BART to the City.

I've heard San Diego has a nascent wine industry in the north of the County. That's a small legal market, but bigger than Napa/Sonoma. Also, some BIGLAW set up shops in Northern San Diego near newer subdivisions. If your relatives were definitely going to move there, it could be worth seeing if there were work opportunities for you and your wife. San Diego is more of a beer town than a wine town, but if she was a chemist or worked on the production side, there are lots of craft breweries there.

If you have issues with the weather, Chicago and Boston don't seem like good options. There's some legal work in Santa Barbara. Beautiful area, good wine, perfect weather. That would be the life.

[Mister_Ruysbroeck]

Honestly, I'm not taking another bar exam, so I may not even BE a lawyer if we move to CA, unless I can get an in-house gig where they really don't care if I'm licensed in CA.

Maybe I'll work for some wine compliance company? Maybe I'll see if Gallo is hiring for their legal department? Maybe I'll take a harvest intern job and get paid jack shit and chase my dream of becoming a winemaker? Who knows? I could live in a tent and be happy at this point, so long as I don't have to write another fucking motion, draft another buy-sell, or revise another purchase agreement.

Long story short, I'm about done being a lawyer. It was fun while it lasted.

Wait, no it wasn't.

[Icky Thump]

Originally Posted by Mister_Ruysbroeck

Honestly, I'm not taking another bar exam, so I may not even BE a lawyer if we move to CA, unless I can get an in-house gig where they really don't care if I'm licensed in CA.

Maybe I'll work for some wine compliance company? Maybe I'll see if Gallo is hiring for their legal department? Maybe I'll take a harvest intern job and get paid jack shit and chase my dream of becoming a winemaker? Who knows? I could live in a tent and be happy at this point, so long as I don't have to write another fucking motion, draft another buy-sell, or revise another purchase agreement.

Long story short, I'm about done being a lawyer. It was fun while it lasted.

Wait, no it wasn't.

I am ready to take the black.



Especially if you can tap this under the guise of research:

[Atticus Grinch]

Originally Posted by Mister_Ruysbroeck

Maybe I'll work for some wine compliance company? Maybe I'll see if Gallo is hiring for their legal department? Maybe I'll take a harvest intern job and get paid jack shit and chase my dream of becoming a winemaker?

Gallo's in Modesto. FUCK NO.

I swear, if there’s anything I’ve learned, it’s that liking the product of a company or industry is poorly correlated with liking being employed by said company or industry. I’ve known too many people who were fooled into wasting years of their life at Apple to fall for that shit.