A Forum for Grinches and Ho-Ho-Hoes - Page 132

ltl/fb · 01-25-2005, 07:02 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by sgtclub
I guess this all comes down to how mature we each view this hypothetical teen. You, RT, and Fringe all seem to think that her failure to consult with you or your wife is based on faulty parenting. I think there are a whole host of reasons why this could be the case, including, that she is just embarassed about it bringing it up, but would really like to have the support/discussion anyway. I am also concerned that, even if the capacity is there, that a teen may not be getting enough information upon which to make an informed decision. I don't trust planned parenthood or any of the various right to life groups to give her that information on an honest basis.

Again, I am not a parent, but I have been around children, and it is often necessary to prod them to talk about even mundane topics, let alone topics as important as abortion. As a parent, I would like the option to do that prodding.

I also think that there is a tremendous difference between a 17 year old and a 14 year old. I am not as concerned with the former as with the latter, and maybe that is what is driving our respective views.

You are willing to sacrifice her health for an opportunity to prod? You can prod all you want. If you are that close to your theoretical kid, you should be able to figure out that there is something wrong.

Replaced_Texan · 01-25-2005, 07:04 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by sgtclub
I also think that there is a tremendous difference between a 17 year old and a 14 year old. I am not as concerned with the former as with the latter, and maybe that is what is driving our respective views.

FWIW, I agree with this. The younger the kid, the more likely I'm supportive of parental notification. My clients regularly treat 12 and 13 year old moms to be. Some of them are not old enough to understand that they're pregnant, much less make decisions about the pregnancy.

FWIW, this is the fact sheet on abortion for minors from Planned Parenthood in Houston. I think it's pretty good. It's also useful that PP offers prenatal care if the kid decides to go through with the pregnancy.

http://www.pphouston.org/site/PageSe...ntnotification

sgtclub · 01-25-2005, 07:13 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by ltl/fb
You are willing to sacrifice her health for an opportunity to prod? You can prod all you want. If you are that close to your theoretical kid, you should be able to figure out that there is something wrong.

Who said anything about sacrificing health? This is particularly annoying because I think by my posts you can see that I'd take a thoughtful and sensitive approach to this, why you got to go to the extremes on me? As to your second point, you are obviously not a parent.

ltl/fb · 01-25-2005, 07:16 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by sgtclub
Who said anything about sacrificing health? This is particularly annoying because I think by my posts you can see that I'd take a thoughtful and sensitive approach to this, why you got to go to the extremes on me? As to your second point, you are obviously not a parent.

You aren't a parent either, according to you.

If for whatever irrational reason she does not trust you, and hides the pregnancy from you for some extended period of time, do you think that carrying a baby to term is healthy for a 13-y-o? Or that it wouldn't be safer to get the abortion earlier rather than later, after she works up the courage to talk to you?

Luckily you will have the perfect relationship, and she will come to you as soon as she first has sex, even if she is molested by her teacher who has convinced her it's her own fault.

And since the system will work for you, it should apply to all girls.

Gattigap · 01-25-2005, 07:19 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by sgtclub
I think there are a whole host of reasons why this could be the case, including, that she is just embarassed about it bringing it up, but would really like to have the support/discussion anyway.

Hunh. And here I thought you just wanted the ability to go shoot some doctors.

Hank Chinaski · 01-25-2005, 07:22 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by ltl/fb
You are willing to sacrifice her health for an opportunity to prod? You can prod all you want. If you are that close to your theoretical kid, you should be able to figure out that there is something wrong.

Can't one just keep a good count of the Tampex each month?

Hank Chinaski · 01-25-2005, 07:22 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Gattigap
Hunh. And here I thought you just wanted the ability to go shoot some doctors.

KILLING DOCTORS KILLS PHYSICIANS!

Replaced_Texan · 01-25-2005, 07:25 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Hank Chinaski
Can't one just keep a good count of the Tampex each month?

You're going to start me on my rant about how tampax should be free and plentiful in bathrooms throughout the land. At the very least, it should be exempt from sales tax.

ltl/fb · 01-25-2005, 07:28 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Hank Chinaski
Can't one just keep a good count of the Tampex each month?

That is an excellent idea, Hank. Thanks.

See club? You don't need to be notified. Just keep the sanitary materials in a locked cabinet. If she hasn't requested the key in four weeks, start grilling her.

It helps to lock her in a cold, dark room and withhold food.

Hank Chinaski · 01-25-2005, 07:31 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by ltl/fb
That is an excellent idea, Hank. Thanks.

See club? You don't need to be notified. Just keep the sanitary materials in a locked cabinet. If she hasn't requested the key in four weeks, start grilling her.

Ain't no right to sanitary napkins in no prenubra of no fucking amendments.

Shape Shifter · 01-25-2005, 07:31 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by sgtclub
I guess this all comes down to how mature we each view this hypothetical teen. You, RT, and Fringe all seem to think that her failure to consult with you or your wife is based on faulty parenting. I think there are a whole host of reasons why this could be the case, including, that she is just embarassed about it bringing it up, but would really like to have the support/discussion anyway. I am also concerned that, even if the capacity is there, that a teen may not be getting enough information upon which to make an informed decision. I don't trust planned parenthood or any of the various right to life groups to give her that information on an honest basis.

Again, I am not a parent, but I have been around children, and it is often necessary to prod them to talk about even mundane topics, let alone topics as important as abortion. As a parent, I would like the option to do that prodding.

I also think that there is a tremendous difference between a 17 year old and a 14 year old. I am not as concerned with the former as with the latter, and maybe that is what is driving our respective views.

What if the girl notifies the parents and they force her to get an abortion. Are you cool with that?

sgtclub · 01-25-2005, 07:34 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by ltl/fb
You aren't a parent either, according to you.

If for whatever irrational reason she does not trust you, and hides the pregnancy from you for some extended period of time, do you think that carrying a baby to term is healthy for a 13-y-o? Or that it wouldn't be safer to get the abortion earlier rather than later, after she works up the courage to talk to you?

Luckily you will have the perfect relationship, and she will come to you as soon as she first has sex, even if she is molested by her teacher who has convinced her it's her own fault.

And since the system will work for you, it should apply to all girls.

Once again, I am done with you, because you can't have a rational discussion without making those that don't agree with you into villians.

sgtclub · 01-25-2005, 07:35 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Shape Shifter
What if the girl notifies the parents and they force her to get an abortion. Are you cool with that?

That is a very interesting question, that I hadn't thought of. Let me think about it, but something certainly bothers me about saying yes.

Mmmm, Burger (C.J.) · 01-25-2005, 07:52 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by sgtclub
That is a very interesting question, that I hadn't thought of. Let me think about it, but something certainly bothers me about saying yes.

What would she notify her parents of? Simply that she's pregnant?

This is an entirely different question, closely akin to whether men should be able to force women to get abortions if they don't want the child and aren't willing to support it. Get BRC here before we start up with that one.

Sidd Finch · 01-25-2005, 07:58 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by sgtclub
I guess this all comes down to how mature we each view this hypothetical teen. You, RT, and Fringe all seem to think that her failure to consult with you or your wife is based on faulty parenting. I think there are a whole host of reasons why this could be the case, including, that she is just embarassed about it bringing it up, but would really like to have the support/discussion anyway.

I think it all comes down to whether government should assume the role of parent. Or whether government should presume that all parents -- including those of 14 yo girls who get pregant and don't want to talk to their parents before getting abortions -- are really good parents. (Burger -- I think -- suggested this, and said it was a rebuttable presumption. I suppose he will support providing paid representation for the 14 so that she can marshall her evidence and presentation to the court, right?)

Does this 14 yo really want to talk to her parents, but needs a push to do so? That may well be the case, but if I'm a good parent who is involved with her life then there will be opportunities for her to talk to me, or for me to see something is wrong and give her a push. The idea of government forcing her to talk to me -- something she really, truly may not want, and may have very good reasons for not wanting (but not sufficient evidence to convince a trier of fact, especially when appearing in pro per -- is what I think is wrong.

My sister was not particularly mature when she was 15. If she'd gotten pregnant and had an abortion, she would have been absolutely nuts to discuss it with my parents. Yet, I doubt she could have convinced a court to waive the requirement. Perhaps an abortion provider, or some other counselor, should have suggested that she really should talk to her parents. But she should not have been forced to do so.

eta an important missing phrase.