General discussion - Mom and Dad Esq.

[Flinty_McFlint]

Originally posted by Mmmm, Burger (C.J.)
You say this, yet no accusations of being a Smuggy McSpermMaker from RP? Jeez.

The form of this defamatory remark concerns me. I have counsel and I'm not afraid to use him (hi Gatti!).

Flinty McFlint

[notcasesensitive]

Originally posted by Flinty_McFlint
The form of this defamatory remark concerns me. I have counsel and I'm not afraid to use him (hi Gatti!).

Flinty McFlint

Hey! I thought I was your counsel now. Sexist fuck.

[Flinty_McFlint]

Originally posted by notcasesensitive
Hey! I thought I was your counsel now. Sexist fuck.

You still are. Can't I have many counsel? You have always been my favorite counsel.

I only use Gatti because he's real bitter and mean, and I need that in this instance.

[Gattigap]

Originally posted by notcasesensitive
Hey! I thought I was your counsel now. Sexist fuck.

I've been meaning to call you about that. Flinty wants us to split representation -- you'll do the "production legal" deals that come up during the course of the shoot, and I'll handle the corporate structuring and larger commercial deals for Flinty Inc. And threaten scumbag infringers, of course.

Upside is that we both accompany Flinty to Prey on a nightly basis. We'll invite Shifter along, and he can be the Turtle to our Jimmy and Eric.

[Atticus Grinch]

Originally posted by Mmmm, Burger (C.J.)
The downfall of civilization began when husbands entered the delivery room.

Where's atticus these days, anyway?

I post exclusively on the Spanky Highlights for Children board for the moment.

[Atticus Grinch]

Originally posted by Mmmm, Burger (C.J.)
No one makes you get an epidural. Although I suspect that sometime partway into labor, you'll be begging for one, headaches be damned (esp. if you're birthing enchilada-boy).

Soapbox moment follows:

Our midwife certified nurse practitioners were not stereotypically against drugs per se. They were, however, heavily against the epidural in favor of the injectable Demerol for pain control. The midwife party line is that when American women say "I want an epidural" they're really only saying "I want to control the pain" in the only way they know how (Americans are prone to self-prescription as much as self-diagnosis --- the same women who assiduously avoid caffeine and booze throughout pregnancy say "Epidural!" upon arrival without asking important questions about the effect on the fetus). Some moms are concerned that an epidural blocks a number of body responses that facilitate labor and delivery in addition to blocking pain, prolonging the labor and increasing the likelihood of caesarian delivery. Thus, moms who want to reduce the chances of a caesarian being necessary should (according to this theory) opt for narcotics in lieu of epidural.

The research we were shown indicates epidurals lower mom's blood pressure and reduce blood flow across the placenta, decreasing oxygen delivery to the baby during birth, and that epidural-assisted births are linked to listless newborns with higher instances of post-birth interventions such as antibiotics. Persons with an analytical bent might note that people inclined to get epidurals are probably not going to fight other medical interventions, so that correlation is not necessarily causation, but YMMNV.

If Demerol is administered during a contraction, very little of the narcotic is delivered across the placenta. This was our back-up plan. To date, this generation of Grinches has been delivered without any pharmalogical pain control. To her, at least.

Every woman is different / you should plan to have the birth you've always wanted / blah blah blah.

[bold_n_brazen]

Originally posted by TexLex
No, but it's pretty high on the list of options for those of us who end up with c-sections.

Mr. Lex, who was somewhat traumatized by c/s #1 (which, to be fair, involved a whole lot of blood on the floor and problems breathing on my part), told me the night before surgery he would prefer not to be in the OR this time. I told him I would prefer not to be there either, but neither of us had a choice in the matter, so wear washable shoes.

I had a c-section too, although I knew going in that's how the Brazenette was coming out. I'd pretty much been told, from the early days of my pregnancy, that I had a pretty good chance of bleeding to death if I had her any other way.

I am grateful I couldn't feel a damn thing.

[nononono]

Originally posted by Atticus Grinch
Soapbox moment follows:

Our midwife certified nurse practitioners were not stereotypically against drugs per se. They were, however, heavily against the epidural in favor of the injectable Demerol for pain control. The midwife party line is that when American women say "I want an epidural" they're really only saying "I want to control the pain" in the only way they know how (Americans are prone to self-prescription as much as self-diagnosis --- the same women who assiduously avoid caffeine and booze throughout pregnancy say "Epidural!" upon arrival without asking important questions about the effect on the fetus). Some moms are concerned that an epidural blocks a number of body responses that facilitate labor and delivery in addition to blocking pain, prolonging the labor and increasing the likelihood of caesarian delivery. Thus, moms who want to reduce the chances of a caesarian being necessary should (according to this theory) opt for narcotics in lieu of epidural.

The research we were shown indicates epidurals lower mom's blood pressure and reduce blood flow across the placenta, decreasing oxygen delivery to the baby during birth, and that epidural-assisted births are linked to listless newborns with higher instances of post-birth interventions such as antibiotics. Persons with an analytical bent might note that people inclined to get epidurals are probably not going to fight other medical interventions, so that correlation is not necessarily causation, but YMMNV.

If Demerol is administered during a contraction, very little of the narcotic is delivered across the placenta. This was our back-up plan. To date, this generation of Grinches has been delivered without any pharmalogical pain control. To her, at least.

Every woman is different / you should plan to have the birth you've always wanted / blah blah blah.

Bah. With my first, I went for the narcotics before the epidural, for all those reasons you mention. Minor pain relief for 20 minutes, got it again, same result. They were useless for me. The epidural allowed my body to relax instead of fighting the labor (me vs. Pitocin was a mean battle). Happily, no issues of slowing labor or anything like that - it allowed me to get control and manage the delivery (yes, both times the nurses told me to go ahead and practice pushing before the doctor got there - I told them I didn't think I would need to, but obliged. They freaked out when it was clear I was going to go ahead and deliver, so they made me stop, which I was able to do under the happy influence of the epi. I also had to stop again mid-delivery with the second due to cord wrapped a couple of times around baby's neck). Both kids full of fire, no listlessness issues. The whole problem with all of this is that you just don't know beforehand how you (and the baby) will react. I am very, very impressed with Mrs. Grinch's med-free birthing abilities!

[Mmmm, Burger (C.J.)]

Originally posted by viet_mom
Huh. I've been getting bum advice. I definitely have Grubs (I think, that is, they are pure white, short and fat but not fat like huge or anything; they are under the soil and there's a ton of them). .

All you want to know, and more!

[robustpuppy]

Originally posted by nononono
Bah. With my first, I went for the narcotics before the epidural, for all those reasons you mention. Minor pain relief for 20 minutes, got it again, same result. They were useless for me. The epidural allowed my body to relax instead of fighting the labor (me vs. Pitocin was a mean battle). Happily, no issues of slowing labor or anything like that - it allowed me to get control and manage the delivery (yes, both times the nurses told me to go ahead and practice pushing before the doctor got there - I told them I didn't think I would need to, but obliged. They freaked out when it was clear I was going to go ahead and deliver, so they made me stop, which I was able to do under the happy influence of the epi. I also had to stop again mid-delivery with the second due to cord wrapped a couple of times around baby's neck). Both kids full of fire, no listlessness issues. The whole problem with all of this is that you just don't know beforehand how you (and the baby) will react. I am very, very impressed with Mrs. Grinch's med-free birthing abilities!

Too bad "Ms. Smuggy McGoodEpidural" just doesn't the right ring to it.

[nononono]

Originally posted by robustpuppy
Too bad "Ms. Smuggy McGoodEpidural" just doesn't the right ring to it.

Yes, too bad! Yes, yes, I fell in love with the stuff.

[tmdiva]

Originally posted by nononono
Yes, too bad! Yes, yes, I fell in love with the stuff.

Well, count me in the other camp--I had an epidural, but wasn't thrilled with it though I had no complications. Family members who were there to witness the birth loved it because it made me easier to watch (no more moaning and groaning, etc.), but I think ultimately it led to further interventions (pitocin and breaking my waters) and eliminated any connection I might have had with the process. Magnus stubbornly presented with his head turned sideways, and COULD NOT come out until he turned when I vomited after 2.5 hours of pushing. Pitocin-aided contractions jamming his head downwards and the elimination of the amniotic cushion could not possibly have helped. He finally came out with a very weirdly-misshapen head, screaming before he was all the way out, and refused to latch onto the breast for the first week of his life. I can't help but feel a smoother delivery could have led to a different result.

So, for #2 I am doing my best to prepare for an unmedicated and intervention-free delivery (in about 10 days if baby cooperates). I've borrowed my sil's HypnoBirthing materials, and I'll see my acupuncturist for help with pain relief and relaxation. I also recommend reading the chapter on labor and delivery in Women's Bodies, Women's Wisdom--I read it for the first time a couple of years ago and wished I had read it and internalized it before Magnus was born.

RP, feel free to PM me if you want more info. I totally understand if you want to wait to see if I am successful in meeting my goals this time around.

tm

[nononono]

Originally posted by tmdiva
Well, count me in the other camp--I had an epidural, but wasn't thrilled with it though I had no complications. Family members who were there to witness the birth loved it because it made me easier to watch (no more moaning and groaning, etc.), but I think ultimately it led to further interventions (pitocin and breaking my waters) and eliminated any connection I might have had with the process. Magnus stubbornly presented with his head turned sideways, and COULD NOT come out until he turned when I vomited after 2.5 hours of pushing. Pitocin-aided contractions jamming his head downwards and the elimination of the amniotic cushion could not possibly have helped. He finally came out with a very weirdly-misshapen head, screaming before he was all the way out, and refused to latch onto the breast for the first week of his life. I can't help but feel a smoother delivery could have led to a different result.

So, for #2 I am doing my best to prepare for an unmedicated and intervention-free delivery (in about 10 days if baby cooperates). I've borrowed my sil's HypnoBirthing materials, and I'll see my acupuncturist for help with pain relief and relaxation. I also recommend reading the chapter on labor and delivery in Women's Bodies, Women's Wisdom--I read it for the first time a couple of years ago and wished I had read it and internalized it before Magnus was born.

RP, feel free to PM me if you want more info. I totally understand if you want to wait to see if I am successful in meeting my goals this time around.

tm

I wish you the best of the best with #2. I did want that sort of natural experience, but pit. did me in and I quickly flipped to the other side. Your Magnus story sounds very difficult - did he get pretty okay after that first week. How stressful for you and him. (Oh, don't want to remember the first weeks of nursing - OW)

I will say, though, that (and you may have found this, too) my nurses were like pushers when it came to the epi. Particularly the first time. I had to tell them for hours I didn't want anything, and you just know they were thinking "I told you so" when I finally caved. And frankly, they looked pretty relieved on #2 when I said right away I was planning for it. Self-interested!

[tmdiva]

Originally posted by nononono
I wish you the best of the best with #2. I did want that sort of natural experience, but pit. did me in and I quickly flipped to the other side. Your Magnus story sounds very difficult - did he get pretty okay after that first week. How stressful for you and him. (Oh, don't want to remember the first weeks of nursing - OW)

I will say, though, that (and you may have found this, too) my nurses were like pushers when it came to the epi. Particularly the first time. I had to tell them for hours I didn't want anything, and you just know they were thinking "I told you so" when I finally caved. And frankly, they looked pretty relieved on #2 when I said right away I was planning for it. Self-interested!

Yes, Magnus did eventually figure out that I wasn't trying to kill him when I stuck my nipple in his mouth. Seriously, that's how he reacted. Oy. This one has got to be better.

Nurses didn't push the epi with me, because I'd specifically stated in my birth plan that we knew our options and would ask. But they definitely seemed relieved when I finally did ask. They probably didn't like my moaning (because I was trying to avoid throwing up--rp, that was a big lesson learned: just go ahead and throw up) any more than the grandmas did.

tm

[robustpuppy]

Originally posted by tmdiva
Yes, Magnus did eventually figure out that I wasn't trying to kill him when I stuck my nipple in his mouth. Seriously, that's how he reacted. Oy. This one has got to be better.

Nurses didn't push the epi with me, because I'd specifically stated in my birth plan that we knew our options and would ask. But they definitely seemed relieved when I finally did ask. They probably didn't like my moaning (because I was trying to avoid throwing up--rp, that was a big lesson learned: just go ahead and throw up) any more than the grandmas did.

tm

I don't really want a natural labor experience so much as I want to avoid having a c-section for non-emergency reasons -- that is, simply because labor is going too slowly in the doctor's view. It would be upsetting to push for hours and then have to give up and get cut, and I don't want the doctors to do that simply because there's a certain point at which they think it's been long enough, but it's not because the baby is in distress.

So at this point, I hope to avoid being induced, monitored, and given an epidural because I've read that research indicates these all slow labor and make a c-section more likely. I'll probably hire a doula. I think the c-section rate in my region is even higher than the national average, and I think my OB's practice serves lots of women like me -- professionals who've waited until their 30s to have kids, and so are considered higher risk automatically.

I don't really trust doctors. It's not that I think they want to do harm, it's just that I think as a general matter, not just in the OB context, they will always have their preferences and biases about how to proceed, and will want to go one way even when there are other alternatives that are just as safe or effective or would simply be better for the individual patient.